Eastern Railroad Discussion > Coal? Not dead yet!

The Wall Street Journal reports on a resurgence of coal fired electric power in parts of the Southeast and Midwest. For the first time in years, natural gas may lose share to coal.

Gas prices have risen in some markets as oil drilling slows. Less associated gas. In the Northeast, proximity to the Marcellus dry gas has kept prices low, and coal remains in the ground.

Nobody expects coal will last, but this is an extension that could last for several cycles. Good for the railroads.

Solar and wind continue their relentless advances, though.


Paywall likely
https://www.wsj.com/articles/coals-moment-in-the-sun-courtesy-of-natural-gas-11599400980?mod=hp_lista_pos3

Posted from Android

i THINK the election will also play a part if coal has any chance of a resurgence.  some of us posted here that gas prices could start rising...........

66



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/20 16:02 by goneon66.

The election will cause a rise in the price of natural gas if the Biden team wins. Coal is a easily varied transportable energy source.natural gas is not. Coal can move on rail or highway natural gas cannot in the quantities required for power generation. I can see a 200-300 % increase if the Green New Deal happens. Time will tell !!!  --- Ken    A third generation oil man--- now retired !! 

Problem with solar is reliability (cloudy days) and extreme temperatures which affect panel output.

Wife and I considered solar for the house because our roof has perfect pitch and southern exposure. The big negative was cost of battery storage and electrical hookup. The panels themselves were cheap. A 100w panel was $75.

As the price of silver keeps skyrocketing, the costs of panels will start rising. Since the market crash in March, silver has nearly tripled. Good for silver coin collectors & investors, bad for the solar power proponents.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/20 18:21 by RGTower.

Kemacprr Wrote:
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> The election will cause a rise in the price of
> natural gas if the Biden team wins. Coal is a
> easily varied transportable energy source.natural
> gas is not. Coal can move on rail or highway
> natural gas cannot in the quantities required for
> power generation. I can see a 200-300 % increase
> if the Green New Deal happens. Time will tell

The Green New Deal is complete and total nonsense. Only people with no connection to the production economy could imagine that plan actually happening.  We aren't going to run 24 hour industrial production plants on solar, we aren't going to give up plastics or natural gas based fertilizers, and absolutely no one is going to stop smelting raw steel using coking coal and natural gas.  This is to say nothing of their plans for non oil based transportation and ridding homes of gas heat and gas stoves/ovens.  The same people who think all this stuff can actually happen also think we can triple the US population with no consequences for food production or consumption of power.

not yet indeed............

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2020/08/15/why-californias-climate-policies-are-causing-electricity-black-outs/#79815e0b1591

bring back the good paying MIDDLE CLASS mining and rail jobs in the coal industry..........

66



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/20 18:39 by goneon66.

I heat my home 100% with 2 stoves, one coal and one wood. 
Use around 5 tons per year and it has twice the btu's of wood. 

Sick_Puppy Wrote:
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> I heat my home 100% with 2 stoves, one coal and
> one wood. 
> Use around 5 tons per year and it has twice the
> btu's of wood. 

That's an impressive amount of coal. You must live in a cold climate, or high altitude, or have a really big house.

Doesn't Colorado have rules in some jurisdictions about the days in which wood stoves may be used?

in this day and age, the LAST thing i am gonna do as a law enforcement officer is worry about somebody burning coal to heat their res.............

66



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/20 21:25 by goneon66.

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> not yet indeed............
>
> https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/
> 2020/08/15/why-californias-climate-policies-are-ca
> using-electricity-black-outs/#79815e0b1591
>
> bring back the good paying MIDDLE CLASS mining and
> rail jobs in the coal industry..........
>
> 66

And this one.

“ It’s almost 3 p.m. Time to turn off major appliances, set the thermostat to 78 degrees (or use a fan instead), turn off excess lights and unplug any appliances you’re not using. We need every Californian to help conserve energy. Please do your part. #FlexAlert”

https://twitter.com/mayorofla/status/1302726251371667457?s=21

Posted from iPhone

And while you're at it, put your mask on at all times, secondhand cough is a killer. 

Out 

In my darker moments the Green New Deal is a very real threat and would be quickly implemented given a series of political possibilities, causing major disruptions, basically putting the USA standard of living back a whole bunch of decades. Then some brainiac will say hey that didn't work but it's not our fault, leaving everybody in the dark and probably wearing masks.

At the moment having energy independence (little or no imports) is a good thing, having energy alternatives is a good thing.

Here in South Florida, my community sees several applications each month for solar electric and solar hot water pool heaters.

Installed solar is pretty standard on some new FL high end homes now.

Decentralized electric is already here. Depending on power over a wire has many risks.

Posted from Android

Sick_Puppy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heat my home 100% with 2 stoves, one coal and
> one wood. 
> Use around 5 tons per year and it has twice the
> btu's of wood. 
Are you burning anthracite or bituminous coal. If bituminous smoke?

Posted from Android

I burn bituminous coal from northern West Virginia.  Normally 11-12,000 btu
but lately have been getting a 13,000+  btu version that makes  lots of heat.

 When I reload the fire I get heavy smoke for a few mminutes.

I  like the coal stoking comments as I get hints for a better fire.   Sometimes I 
feel like a fireman on a locomotive doing this!

Nope. No way this can possibly happen. Renewables are just propaganda. 

Except for the fact that it is already happening. My home state ( NY) has only one functioning coal plant, and it will be gone within a year. New England is already virtually coal-free. That’s tens of millions of people, all living with no coal at all. All this, in one of the cloudiest parts of the US. And yes, the sun goes down daily here, just like everywhere else. 

10 months a year, I pay only a connection charge, less than $20 a month. 

And most of this is driven by gas vs coal economics, not green ideology. Fact is, you can have as much gas as you want, for ridiculous low prices. Still plenty of hydropower coming in from Canada too. 

On on a personal level, I finished paying for my rooftop solar system last year, and am now reaping the benefits. As it happens I ran out of roof space (all on my workshop) and only got up to 90 % of the capacity I was aiming for. Next year, with a new metal roof on the house, I will install more panels and become a net generator. 

But remember, this is all impossible. 

march_hare Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nope. No way this can possibly happen. Renewables
> are just propaganda. 
>
> Except for the fact that it is already happening.
> My home state ( NY) has only one functioning coal
> plant, and it will be gone within a year. New
> England is already virtually coal-free. That’s
> tens of millions of people, all living with no
> coal at all. All this, in one of the cloudiest
> parts of the US. And yes, the sun goes down daily
> here, just like everywhere else. 
>
> 10 months a year, I pay only a connection charge,
> less than $20 a month. 
>
> And most of this is driven by gas vs coal
> economics, not green ideology. Fact is, you can
> have as much gas as you want, for ridiculous low
> prices. Still plenty of hydropower coming in from
> Canada too. 
>
> On on a personal level, I finished paying for my
> rooftop solar system last year, and am now reaping
> the benefits. As it happens I ran out of roof
> space (all on my workshop) and only got up to 90 %
> of the capacity I was aiming for. Next year, with
> a new metal roof on the house, I will install more
> panels and become a net generator. 
>
> But remember, this is all impossible. 

Yes, completely impossible. Or if not impossible, ridiculously expensive. Or if not impossible and ridiculously expensive, not secure. Or if none of those things, then plain morally reprehensible and likely to cause cancer, volcanic eruptions and mass unemployment... phew, that was close.

I have a woodburner, though I normally heat my home with natual gas. My body likes the heat from that and the old steam heat we used have in schools and apartment buildings.  It just feels much better than heat from a furnace.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com

Sick_Puppy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I heat my home 100% with 2 stoves, one coal and
> one wood. 
> Use around 5 tons per year and it has twice the
> btu's of wood. 

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Wall Street Journal reports on a resurgence of coal fired electric power in parts of the Southeast and Midwest. For the first time in years, natural gas may lose share to coal.
>
> Gas prices have risen in some markets as oil drilling slows. Less associated gas. In the Northeast, proximity to the Marcellus dry gas has kept prices low, and coal remains in the ground.
>
> Nobody expects coal will last, but this is an extension that could last for several cycles. Good for the railroads.
>
> Solar and wind continue their relentless advances, though.
>
>
> Paywall likely
> https://www.wsj.com/articles/coals-moment-in-the-sun-courtesy-of-natural-gas-11599400980?mod=hp_lista_pos3


The first sentence from that Wall Street Journal article:

Coal is on its way out of the electrical grid, but not without some dying flickers.

The usual suspects ignore that even the Wall Street Journal has a different view of reality than what they are posting here.

Brian

 

wabash2800 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have a woodburner, though I normally heat my
> home with natual gas. My body likes the heat from
> that and the old steam heat we used have in
> schools and apartment buildings.  It just feels
> much better than heat from a furnace.
>

Yup, I grew up in a house heated originally by anthracite, made the change to oil while I was still a kid, maybe 6 years old. Added wood heat when oil got expensive in the early 1970s. Man, I loved wood. Loved the glow, loved the proximity warmth around the stove, and really loved the fact that our efforts in the woods during the summer were keeping our sorry a**es warm in the winter without enriching people I didn’t like much.

Then I lived in Missoula MT for 3 years in the 1980s. First winter I was there, we had a solid month of air quality alerts, kids kept indoors at recess, horrible visibility.  Catalytic converters have helped that in subsequent years, but the point remains:  No Free Lunch. Everything comes with drawbacks. 

Now or that I’m an old(er) fart, I have to say that from a physical perspective, I get a lot of that proximity warmth, cozy feeling from radiant floor heating. It feels like the whole building is keeping me warm, with no cold spots. Doesn’t really matter what the energy source is, having a warm floor is cool.