Eastern Railroad Discussion > crew--change done "on the fly"

I figure that the responses will be "no way, it's against the rules & regs", but I'm asking: 

Anyone reading this ever witnessed a crew-change done "on the fly"...i.e., the train never coming to a complete stop? 

Over my lifetime, I have witnessed it twice: once at Rocky Mount, NC....no surprise that it was a northbound (loaded) "juice train". This would have been about 1982-1983. I was standing opposite the tower and on that concrete platform opposite Rosa Street.  I figure a few readers know where I mean. Train got down to a 2-3mph crawl....watched crew members get off and get on, with the train rolling. I think it was choreographed a bit, with the engineer in his seat being replaced by the new engineer. I couldn't really tell from my vantage point.   I was astonished! I suppose that, if I was ever going to see it happen, a fresh OJ train would be the likely event. 

These days? I would not be surprised to learn that the crew onboarding at Florence takes these juice traiins to Richmond, with pretty much everything else in the hole to let them pass. Anyone know for sure?

The other time: NS, at Danville, KY ....and that was a southbound manifest! I just could not believe what I was looking at. About same speed...walking or a bit less. That was back in the 1980s too. 

--Gerrypaul



 

Used to do it a lot.

Conductor would bail off, the new engineer would get on, the old one would get off and the new conductor would get on board all while the train very, slowly, kept moving.

I have worked other trains where the inbound engineer pulled right by the outbound crew until the caboose was where the outbound rear crew could swap then backed up to swap the head end crew. 

All this, quite a few years ago.

Exprail

Yes, in the early 90s railfanning Selkirk Yard. Witnessed train TVLA make the rolling swap a few days in a row.

JG

Posted from Android

Quite common but OSHA, lawyers and the railroads shut the practice down. Like kicking cars.
But all the rails are probably a little safer out there now.
Thinking about this I recall watching cars being kicked in a flat yard. The engine would shove a car or cars while the brakie or conductor literally ran alongside the move, holding up the cut lever, while running on ties and jumping over switches and other obstacles. I know they did thei for years but as I watched I thought, "That ain't safe". Like running with scissors in your hands".
Go

I've seen it many times at the same place in Rocky Mount, "C. O. Tower", with the southbound piggyback 175 and hotshot through freight 109 (Potomac Yard, Alexandria, VA to Moncrief Yard, Jacksonville, FL).  

I've also seen it at the Raleigh, NC passenger station on the ex-Seaboard Air Line mainline.  Southbound there is a fairly stiff upgrade that extends from the north end of town past the SAL yard and passenger station, through downtown and ending at the NC State Fairgrounds about four miles west of Boylan Tower (eastern junction of the SAL-Southern Railway joint double track).  Piggyback 175 (which switched to the Seaboard route through Raleigh from 1969 to 1972) and hotshot 227 (Potomac Yard to Atlanta/Birmingham) would roar upgrade through the station at 2 mph as the crews switched.  This was common practice so the trains did not have to restart on the grade.  

Used to see it commonly back in the day at Oakdale, TN on the CNO&TP (present NS, ex Southern Ry). Nobody thought twice about the practice up through at least the mid 80s.

Even if for some reason all the lawyers and what not said it would be okay to do them on the fly again, one thing that would stay against the idea would be PTC. The train must be stopped to log out or in to the system.

I can't find it now but there is a youtube video of a non-stop crew change.  The old crew gets off of the front of the locomotive and the new crew gets on the other end.  The train is moving 2 or 3 MPH.  

John

The EL did it in Hornell with the "hottest of the hot" - the mostly UPS Second NY100.

Posted from Android

Sixties, seventies, everyday occurance on Santa Fe and many terminals.
JB

While working AC Tower Marion, OH I saw the Meadville-Dayton train Dayton 97 change on the fly at AC. 

Gonut1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quite common but OSHA, lawyers and the railroads
> shut the practice down. Like kicking cars.
> But all the rails are probably a little safer out
> there now.
> Thinking about this I recall watching cars being
> kicked in a flat yard. The engine would shove a
> car or cars while the brakie or conductor
> literally ran alongside the move, holding up the
> cut lever, while running on ties and jumping over
> switches and other obstacles. I know they did thei
> for years but as I watched I thought, "That ain't
> safe". Like running with scissors in your hands".
> Go

At times I wonder if the dangerous things have the best safety record because the people doing them know that they are dangerous so they are more careful.

Gerrypaul Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> These days? I would not be surprised to learn that
> the crew onboarding at Florence takes these juice
> traiins to Richmond, with pretty much everything
> else in the hole to let them pass. Anyone know for
> sure?

You may be surprised to learn that there is no longer a dedicated juice train. The cars move in "blocks"(quotes because they are often scattered) in manifest freights. I can't speak to the whole process from Bradenton, but through Rocky Mount they arrive on Q400 and depart on Q300, often with a layover of around ~18-22 hours. Q400 typically arrives in the evening and Q300 departs mid afternoon. The slow cycle times are apparent in the use of Cryo-Trans reefers to suppliment the Tropicana and CSXT cars in Tropicana service.
 

exopr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While working AC Tower Marion, OH I saw the
> Meadville-Dayton train Dayton 97 change on the fly
> at AC. 

And they had to do it quickly as the station platform was not all that long!

Gonut1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quite common but OSHA, lawyers and the railroads
> shut the practice down. Like kicking cars.
> But all the rails are probably a little safer out
> there now.
> Thinking about this I recall watching cars being
> kicked in a flat yard. The engine would shove a
> car or cars while the brakie or conductor
> literally ran alongside the move, holding up the
> cut lever, while running on ties and jumping over
> switches and other obstacles. I know they did thei
> for years but as I watched I thought, "That ain't
> safe". Like running with scissors in your hands".
> Go

We do kick cars....it's only been restricted in spots where it rarely works like it should

NYSWSD70M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The EL did it in Hornell with the "hottest of the
> hot" - the mostly UPS Second NY100.
>
> Posted from Android

Seen it in Port Jervis NY too.

TJY

In my early days firing on the SCL I swapped out on the fly at Raleigh NC as previously mentioned. It was on 175, 227,and sometimes 115.  I think we tried it at least once on 429, the long haul local to Hamlet. They did this in SAL days too.   When I went to the Southern as engineer, I only did it only at Charlotte NC on train 156 - the Bean Train, which was a hotshot from Savannah and Columbia to Potomac Yard in Alexandria VA.  We swapped out on the fly on the long wide concrete passenger landing, with the Columbia guys getting off and the Charlotte-Spencer crew stepping up.  This required extra dexterity if done legally because the Southerrn engines of the time had deadman pedals.  Fortunately we had two pedals, one for each direction.  Once the engineer and brakemen were on, we kept the train rolling along, bunched with light dynamic.  The outbound flagman and conductor looked for an approaching mid train caboose.  They threw their grips on, ran along side closing the anglecock and pulling the pin, and let the engineer they were up.  We worked the slack out, separating from the rear portion of the train while still moving, throwing the rear part ofthe train in emergency, and we made a fast run to Spencer.  The train had to be in Pot Yard by midnight to beat per diem rules.  The detached rear portion of The Bean Train was the Charlotte block in emergency on the main line.  A yard engine then grapped it.  That portion became known as " the Bean Leavings".  The inbound Columbia rear end crew probably swung off at the south end yard shanty, I think.  I never asked.  I was busy hauling ass for Spencer.

Notch7 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In my early days firing on the SCL I swapped out
> on the fly at Raleigh NC as previously mentioned.
> It was on 175, 227,and sometimes 115.  I think we
> tried it at least once on 429, the long haul local
> to Hamlet. They did this in SAL days too.   When
> I went to the Southern as engineer, I only did it
> only at Charlotte NC on train 156 - the Bean
> Train, which was a hotshot from Savannah and
> Columbia to Potomac Yard in Alexandria VA....

Enjoyed the 156 story. That was railroading!

Have done it many times in Waycross on trains that went thru the station, and at Savannah on thru trains.

Sam

B&O did it several times every day at New Castle, Pennsylvania.

Rich Melvin
Columbus, OH
My Web Site