Eastern Railroad Discussion > Did CP Error on selling the south end of D&H?

Did CP Error on selling the south end of D&H in 2015 to Norfolk Southern?  If CP had retained the south end of the D&H, could CP have been a viable contender for Pan Am extending the line to the east creating an alternative line via New England to Saint John?  With Norfolk Southern in full PSR mode, could CP have considered buying elements of NS to include the Southern Tier Line and possibly more of their network?

Wasn't CP in PSR mode at that time?

With CMQ CP doesn't need PAR. The route via CMQ to Montreal and south on the old D&H is pretty efficient for Maritime traffic. But you would think CP would want to have a route from the Maritimes deeper into the east. I think CP had a different mind set when they sold the south end of D&H. I have always found it odd that no one seems able to make intermodal from Eastern Canada into the Eastern US work. CSX tried hard with the Valleyfield, Quebec site and it was a complete flop.

Good points. I am always amazed by the number of Canadian trucks on I-95 in Virginia and the Carolinas.

And on I-81 in southwest Virginia.

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
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> Good points. I am always amazed by the number of
> Canadian trucks on I-95 in Virginia and the
> Carolinas.
>
> And on I-81 in southwest Virginia.
>
> Posted from Android

Same with the number of trucks on I-87 between Canada and Albany, NY

CP4743 Wrote:
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> Same with the number of trucks on I-87 between
> Canada and Albany, NY

There is simply no comparison between the dock-to-dock time of truck vs. train freight transfers on the Montreal-New York route. Here's something I observed first-hand in 2008: 

"Two weeks ago I drove from Montreal to New York to visit some of my family. In congested morning rush hour traffic on highway 20 adjacent to the abandoned CN Turcot Yard intermodal site in Montreal, I let two tractor-trailers with orange CNRU containers get into the lane ahead of me. We were more-or-less together all the way to the border. I stopped for gas in Plattsburgh, and when I got back on the highway, I encountered the same two trucks once again. I finally lost sight of them for good in Albany. Four hours, 225 miles including a border crossing."

Ray

CP4743 Wrote:
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> With CMQ CP doesn't need PAR. The route via CMQ to
> Montreal and south on the old D&H is pretty
> efficient for Maritime traffic. But you would
> think CP would want to have a route from the
> Maritimes deeper into the east. I think CP had a
> different mind set when they sold the south end of
> D&H. I have always found it odd that no one seems
> able to make intermodal from Eastern Canada into
> the Eastern US work. CSX tried hard with the
> Valleyfield, Quebec site and it was a complete
> flop.
CP wanted the Hagerstown gateway when they negotiated for the purchase of the D&H, but didn't get it.  That would have allowed for a direct connection to both CSX and NS verses using the Northeast Corridor.    

Northern Wrote:
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> CP4743 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > With CMQ CP doesn't need PAR. The route via CMQ
> to
> > Montreal and south on the old D&H is pretty
> > efficient for Maritime traffic. But you would
> > think CP would want to have a route from the
> > Maritimes deeper into the east. I think CP had
> a
> > different mind set when they sold the south end
> of
> > D&H. I have always found it odd that no one
> seems
> > able to make intermodal from Eastern Canada
> into
> > the Eastern US work. CSX tried hard with the
> > Valleyfield, Quebec site and it was a complete
> > flop.
> CP wanted the Hagerstown gateway when they
> negotiated for the purchase of the D&H, but didn't
> get it.  That would have allowed for a direct
> connection to both CSX and NS verses using the
> Northeast Corridor.    

The Hagerstown Gateway is an interesting alternative to the Potomac Yard gateway they did receive.

CP gave it a good try but in 25 years they could not develop a traffic base for the D&H.  In the end, the south end largely existed for the benefit of NS anyway.

Northern Wrote:
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> Did CP Error on selling the south end of D&H in
> 2015 to Norfolk Southern?  If CP had retained the
> south end of the D&H, could CP have been a viable
> contender for Pan Am extending the line to the
> east creating an alternative line via New England
> to Saint John?  With Norfolk Southern in full PSR
> mode, could CP have considered buying elements of
> NS to include the Southern Tier Line and possibly
> more of their network?

CMQ was bought to feed Saint John IM for Montreal, Toronto, Chicago and vv. Also as a point for distribution of Domestic IM throughout the Maritime provinces for CP customers like Canadian Tire. Lastly the Auto Compound is to be expanded to distribute Autos. Any add-on Manifest traffic from the Irving lines is a bonus. None of the primary traffic flows will be to D&H points, but if some manifest traffic developes that is also a bonus.