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Eastern Railroad Discussion > Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads?Date: 05/12/22 10:31 Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: Lackawanna484 The Kinder Morgan slides mentioned on the "Foote calls" thread point out the traditional railroad strategy of mass furloughs is a bankrupt and ineffective strategy. And calls for the railroads to build a "culture of retention" to keep good people. Kinder was hosting a shippers round table for railroad problems.
There's no evidence that railroads are interested in doing that, but, just for kickers, what would that culture of retention look like? ---allowing employees to select the maximum hours of they work each month, once they qualify for a minimum. If you want to work 160 hours (4 weeks x 40 hours), that's great. Full benefits. If you want 200 hours, that's fine, too. Etc. ---when work slows down, they scale back your choice. So, everybody sees a 10%, etc reduction in their selected hours. Not drop the newest 10% of workers ---premium pay if called within eight hours of the end of your rest ---allow a "sabatical" every five years. Two months off, with pay and benefits to do what you want. ---pay for educational benefits. if you want to get a degree or certificate in astrophysics or Victorian literature or plumbing, either on line or in person, the company will pay for courses each semester Date: 05/12/22 11:37 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: CPR_4000 Seems that the adversarial relationship between labor (running trades, at least) and management is very, very deeply ingrained.
Date: 05/12/22 11:53 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: pdt If they want to keep employees, they need to spend the money to staff properly.
Problem is, staffing needs change day to day. Its the nature of the transportation biz. The RR brain trust looks at a spread sheet, and says..."why are we holding all these ppl on, when we only need all those employees, say 7 days a month. They look at the minimum # of ppl needed on the slowest, best operating day they have, and want to staff that way all the time. The cost of doing business in the transportation industry, is that you will be paying some employees to not work on slow days. Thats THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS. But the bean counters just HATE to pay someone to not work, ever. Its fingernails on a chalkboard to these ppl. So they short staff, and try to push everyone to work on days off, etc., when its a heavy, bad day. You wanna keep employees, staff for the really ugly days, not for really light days. Perks are nice, i think having a predictable schedule is more important to most ppl. Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/22 11:56 by pdt. Date: 05/12/22 11:57 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: ClubCar pdt Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > If they want to keep employees, they need to spend > the money to staff properly. > > Problem is, staffing needs change day to > day. The RR brain trust looks at a spread > sheet, and says..."why are we holding all these > ppl on, when we only need all those employees, say > 5 days a month. They look at the minimum # > of ppl needed on the slowest, best operating day > they have, and want to staff that way all the > time. > > The cost of doing business in the transportation > industry, is that you will be paying some > employees to not work on slow days. That's THE > COST OF DOING BUSINESS. But the bean > counters just HATE to pay someone to not work, > ever. Its fingernails on a chalkboard to these > ppl. > So they short staff, and try to push everyone to > work on days off, etc., when its a heavy, bad > day. > > You wanna keep employees, staff for the really > ugly days, not for really light days. Perks are > nice, i think having a predictable schedule is > more important to most ppl. Amen to that sir. It's time for these crazy "bean counters" to go. John in White Marsh, Maryland Date: 05/12/22 12:16 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: engineerinvirginia Since I am on CSX this has some relevance....but the trust is not here.....Foote can say everything he has on his mind but action is what makes me take a look. First hurdle is the national agreement and nothing he can propose until then is anything more than butt kissing in reverse.
Date: 05/12/22 12:39 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: TAW There was a culture of retrntion. There was a culture of pride. There was a culture of loyalty.
The coprorations erased all of it. Perhaps they should merely study history, actually learn from it, and act accordingly. TAW Date: 05/12/22 13:23 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: MC6853 pdt Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > If they want to keep employees, they need to spend > the money to staff properly. > > Problem is, staffing needs change day to day. > Its the nature of the transportation biz. > > The RR brain trust looks at a spread sheet, and > says..."why are we holding all these ppl on, when > we only need all those employees, say 7 days a > month. They look at the minimum # of ppl > needed on the slowest, best operating day they > have, and want to staff that way all the time. > > The cost of doing business in the transportation > industry, is that you will be paying some > employees to not work on slow days. Thats THE > COST OF DOING BUSINESS. But the bean > counters just HATE to pay someone to not work, > ever. Its fingernails on a chalkboard to these > ppl. > So they short staff, and try to push everyone to > work on days off, etc., when its a heavy, bad > day. > > You wanna keep employees, staff for the really > ugly days, not for really light days. Perks are > nice, i think having a predictable schedule is > more important to most ppl. I've never worked for a railroad but you've still perfectly described every job I've ever had... Things get busy but they hire almost no one, and ask or force the existing employees to shoulder the additional load... Your time off and personal life aren't important to them, they have work that needs doing; that's more important... That mentality seems to be burned into the minds of management at most companies in this country, even if it is particularly acute at the railroads... Management types claim no one wants to work, but a lot of the time the real issue is that those same folks never seem to want to hire... Date: 05/12/22 14:25 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: junctiontower I would think creating a culture of retention starts with treating your workforce as an asset instead of a liability. In the transportation field where there is no product per say, you are ONLY as good as your people, and that means from the CEO to the janitor.
Posted from iPhone Date: 05/12/22 18:29 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: JOHNY5ALIVE While I certainly agree that the national agreement needs to be resolved as quickly as possible. The fundamental change will not happen overnight and will probably take decades… the problem is VERY deeply rooted on both sides of the fence….. Unions fight among themselves, management fights among themselves. The last great example of this that I can currently think of was the updated HOS regulations the government instituted in 2008 or 2009. Nobody on the union side or management side could come up with a plan that pleased everybody. The unions pushed for PTC because after every major derailment they said it was caused by crew fatigue and now that the railroads have PTC and Trip Optimizer…. New technology & 20 billion dollars later well…. You can see where this is going. Just like the death of the steam locomotive, the computer caused the death of the clerk, the radio caused the death of the flagger/brakeman, the EOT caused the death of the caboose. I could just keep going but you see…
Posted from iPhone Date: 05/13/22 06:05 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: ns1000 Meanwhile, the "remaining workforce" and our "customers" continue to suffer as a result??!!
It's sad what things have become now...... Posted from Android Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/22 07:10 by ns1000. Date: 05/13/22 06:54 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: SeaboardMan Remember back when the Powder River was going great guns Union Pacific offered to give employees a guaranteed salary and a more predictable work schedule for a decent life as far as work/home goes. It was shot down by the guys that wanted to run as many trips as possible.
meanwhile the RRs have shot so many holes in their feet they are sinking in the swamp. john Date: 05/13/22 07:34 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: Lackawanna484 SeaboardMan Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Remember back when the Powder River was going > great guns Union Pacific offered to give employees > a guaranteed salary and a more predictable work > schedule for a decent life as far as work/home > goes. It was shot down by the guys that wanted > to run as many trips as possible. > meanwhile the RRs have shot so many holes in their > feet they are sinking in the swamp. > john > > The conflict between the maximum turns guys and the work life balance people has been going on forever. But many younger people don't see a need to choose. There are plenty of jobs that give them $ and some balance. Posted from Android Date: 05/13/22 19:53 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: Milw_E70 In the not so distant past BNSF would pay guys $1000 a pay period, with full benefits, to sit at home during slow times. They upped the amount to $1250 with the condition that you would be avaliable one day a week for service. That lasted a couple of years before they abolished them and started furloughing again. I believe UP had something similar at one time also.
Date: 05/13/22 23:14 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: pdt "the maximum turns guys "
You mean "the guys who work as much as they can, cause otherwise the'd have to be home with their wifes and family. ?" Date: 05/14/22 03:58 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: Fr8engineer There will never be a culture of retention, or of anything else as long as people know the goal is to get rid of conductors. Everybody knows it, they're just biding their time and trying to make a good shake before it all comes down to one man in the cab.
Yeah yeah yeah, "redeployment". But they'll be able to cut the number of conductor positions drastically, even with conductors on the locals and a few of them working shifts at the yard helping multiple trains. II hate sounding so negative, but "it's over". The damage has been done, and this place will never be a "good" place to work again. They've taken our starts, our miles, our abilty to do the job how we see fit, the short days, the claims, our autonomy, our morale. You can't have a culture of retention when you've taken away all the good reasons to work on the RR. Date: 05/14/22 05:53 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: goneon66 pdt Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > "the maximum turns guys " > > You mean "the guys who work as much as they can, > cause otherwise the'd have to be home with their > wifes and family. ?" while i was NEVER one who wanted to "turn and burn," i sure respected those who wanted to provide the best life they could for their families. unfortunately, "turn and burn" and being away from their families was a way they could do it............ 66 Date: 05/14/22 06:10 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: train1275 Re: "the maximum turns guys "
The old timers I knew from the 30's and 40's era referred to them as mileage hogs. I recall in my T&E days reporting off at 11:59 hours duty time so we could turn in 8 hours instead of 10 too. Date: 05/14/22 08:53 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: MigraMan Extra boards to cover pool freights instead of self protecting boards?
Posted from iPhone Date: 05/14/22 09:20 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: engineerinvirginia MigraMan Wrote:
------------------------------------------------------- > Extra boards to cover pool freights instead of > self protecting boards? > > Posted from iPhone Unfortunately there's agreement language to cover self protecting pools...the carrier probably wanted it and it is voluntary but unfortunately many locales cut their nose off to spite their face and elected to do it. Mine locallity did not as were aware what that would do to the extra board. We would rather keep the extra board well stocked...and we try to...and since we are not self protecting we have the ammuntion to tell the company not to cut so deep. But as for the rest...I think the damage is done because to get rid of this provision the carrrier is going want something else...and that else may be way worse....better the devil you know, than the devil you don't know. Date: 05/14/22 12:05 Re: Building a "culture of retention" on the railroads? Author: Drknow I couldn’t imagine working a self protected pool… oh, wait. Our Xtra board has been shot for 10 years. I guess I already do!!
The carriers USED to LOVE the mile hogs. They never laid off or took rest; then came FR because the Class Ones wouldn’t come to the table on fatigue issues. So the mile hogs can’t be hogs anymore and the carrier’s are mad and pouting like little children. They won’t even sign smart rest agreements because it would be a win/win for BOTH labor and management; can’t have that. Regards. Posted from iPhone |