Eastern Railroad Discussion > Norfolk Southern train in Alabama derailment lacked needed couple

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/norfolk-southern-train-in-alabama-derailment-lacked-needed-couplers-feds-say/ar-AA18Sxuu?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=bf407770f1a24455c9f256582bdd91ef&ei=25

So the engines did not derail but cars did so why the big deal about couplers on the engines? 

Locomotives moving dead in train ( as these were) are required to be separated by at lease one railcar. These non-NS locomotives were waybilled as a revenue move and have special instructions for their move.

Ed Burns

The TRUE cause of the Stuck Truck...

The locos stopped.
The train keeps coming.
The total distance of the crosswise cars shows distance that the
train continued to roll, after the locos stopped. that the forces 
are greater than 'alignment-control' couplers were designed to 
control.  

Each auto-rack is 90- feet long, when cross-wise, they're 10-feet wide...
doing the math will tell you how far the rest of the train kept coming ...

The front of the train stops.  The greater  mass keeps coming.
Cars are gonna scatter, regardless.  Newton's 3 Laws always take-over,
and energy gets distributed...when energy exceeds 4 ft, 9-inches of
track gauge and 1"-high flanges.

He did a good job to prevent striking the illegally operated 
tractor trailer.   I contend that the trailer's 'dolly-wheels' ( that support
parked trailers) were too low to the road surface.
They got stuck between the rails.... and there he sat.

Had he been properly trained, he would have manually cranked those dolly
wheels to their full-upward limit of travel.  
If he had done that, he wouldn't have gotten hung-up on the tracks.  

But, hey, who spends any time doing all that manual cranking --- both, when 
parking trailers & when being picked-up by the "5th wheel"?

Its more common that "low-boy" flat-bed trailers get stuck on the tracks, than
the box trailers..... those box trailers' floors are about 4-feet off the road.---
except for those spindly front support-legs..

But , hey, he was probably also in unfamiliar street territory, is my suspicion


​W.

.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/23 09:24 by wcamp1472.

Something that has not come out in the News media is that there were actually 2 derailments in one train. One was on the head end and the other back in the train. No cause yet to be stated in the initial "Investigation Details". Read the for yourself:

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/Pages/RRD23LR008.aspx

In my opinion, for what its worth, something caused the head end to derail, causing the train to go into emergency. The resulting slack and run in caused the second derailment.
Did the lack of tight lock couplers cause the initial derailment? That is what is being hinted at.

Bob

It's not the couplers per se but the non-alignment control draft gear that allowed the two coupled in-tow locomotives to spread the rails and cause the derailment.  The train was in heavy dynamic braking at the time.  For years Norfolk Southern has had rules about not coupling two locomotives together with non-alignment control draft gear.  The two old GP9s in tow did not have alignment control draft gear.

Discussion already started:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,5649972

And earlier discussion at the time of the derailment:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,5642933

NPEDDIE Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Locomotives moving dead in train ( as these were)
> are required to be separated by at lease one
> railcar. These non-NS locomotives were waybilled
> as a revenue move and have special instructions
> for their move.
>
> Ed Burns

Are you saying that if there is MORE than ONE locomotive dead in tow they have to be seperated?  Because whenever I see single locomotives DIT on NS trains, they are always right behind the power.  If so, I'm curious how the train knows the difference between a DIT locomotive and an operating one.

junctiontower Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NPEDDIE Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Locomotives moving dead in train ( as these
> were)
> > are required to be separated by at lease one
> > railcar. These non-NS locomotives were
> waybilled
> > as a revenue move and have special instructions
> > for their move.
> >
> > Ed Burns
>
> Are you saying that if there is MORE than ONE
> locomotive dead in tow they have to be
> seperated?  Because whenever I see single
> locomotives DIT on NS trains, they are always
> right behind the power.  If so, I'm curious how
> the train knows the difference between a DIT
> locomotive and an operating one.

Only if the units coupled do not have alignment control draft gear do they need to be seperated.

"It's not the couplers per se but the non-alignment
control draft gear that allowed the two coupled
in-tow locomotives to spread the rails and cause
 the derailment...".
WHAT ??

Are you saying that the stuck-truck was not the cause of the derailment?
That the train derailed because of 2 GP9s spread the rails?
Why not blame the poorly spiked track and the wood crossties?

I don't follow the spurious fact, or that relavence, of the 2 older geeps caused
this derailment; and all those auto carriers were tight-lock equipped....if tight-locks
are purported to be so good,  how did they all get crosswise?

The stopped truck is the cause...not any aspect of the RR or it's trains.

Too many argumentative lawyer-types trying to confuse & muddy the clear truth.
That's all lawyers are taught to do.
Confuse folks about the facts of what occurred.
"The gun is the cause, account of it's too-sensitive trigger, not my client's
 actions..."


​W.

 

Wes; I believe you are confusing the CSX derailment in Kentucky with a recent NS derailment in Alabama. The CSX derailment in Kentucky did involve autoracks but, the NS derailment did not.

The topic of this discussion is the NS derailment in Alabama.

CW

Posted from iPhone

You're probably very correct.
Sorry about that...
Too many damn wrecks..
.
It's less costly to clean up the aftermarth, than to bring on enough 
good folks to prevent the wrecks in the first place.
Its always cheaper to cut the payroll, & put the risk on the public,
then fight them in courts --- where the risks to the Company are milder,
or non-existent.

I'll go back into my hole...

​W.

If you look closely at photos of the derailment, the rail is indeed turned over underneath the second tow engine.
============================================================================================

BAB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So the engines did not derail but cars did so why
> the big deal about couplers on the engines? 

            I suppose I have been sheltered a long time as I have neve seen tight lock couplers on auto racks.

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>             I suppose I have been sheltered
> a long time as I have neve seen tight lock
> couplers on auto racks.


They do exist on Amtrak auto racks.

https://www.railpictures.net/photo/395339/

dcfbalcoS1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>             I suppose I have been sheltered
> a long time as I have neve seen tight lock
> couplers on auto racks.

Tight lock couplers and alignment control draft gear are two different animals. People are getting the two confused.

Tight locks are designed to keep equipment coupled and upright in a derailment. Alignment control draft gear is designed to keep equipment from exerting enough lateral force on the track, to roll or break a rail.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/23 08:14 by bioyans.