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Eastern Railroad Discussion > FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves


Date: 03/21/23 21:23
FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: pt199

 An accident that led to the death of a Norfolk Southern conductor in Cleveland has prompted the Federal Railroad Administration to issue a safety bulletin regarding shove moves at highway grade crossings.
FRA officials described the bulletin as informal in nature and did not cite the NS incident, which occurred on March 7. However, the bulletin did reference facts that mirrored what occurred in Cleveland.

The bulletin called for railroads to ensure that crew members have proper training, periodic oversight, and application of appropriate railroad operating rules when determining whether a track is clear.
Crew members are also being urged to conduct job briefings and communicate during pushing and shoving movements. From the akronrrblog



Date: 03/21/23 21:33
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: P

As long as railroaders ride freight cars on shove moves over railway crossings, this type of incident will continue to happen. Other than doing everything possible to minimize these types of moves, I'm not sure what the answer is.

Posted from Android



Date: 03/22/23 05:44
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: Juniata

With equipment such as tank cars or covered hoppers that have crossover platforms on the ends, permit the person riding the shove to move from the side corner to the crossover when moving over a crossing. When my youngest was working for a shortline as a conductor, he would routinely do this over one particular crossing because of heavy truck traffic.

Another possibility that would definitely add time, stop the shove short of the crossing, dismount and flag the move over the crossing.

CW

Posted from iPhone



Date: 03/22/23 07:19
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: Lackawanna484

I've observed Florida East Coast conductors etc descend from the shove and flag the train across a street. They will occasionally use flares, too.



Date: 03/22/23 08:01
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: AmHog

Well, the carriers could provide a caboose or shoving platform to protect its workers. Guess that would be asking too much.



Date: 03/22/23 08:03
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: bioyans

Juniata Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> With equipment such as tank cars or covered
> hoppers that have crossover platforms on the ends,
> permit the person riding the shove to move from
> the side corner to the crossover when moving over
> a crossing. When my youngest was working for a
> shortline as a conductor, he would routinely do
> this over one particular crossing because of heavy
> truck traffic.

Not a good idea. The impact of a vehicle can throw you off the car and under the wheels of the equipment real fast. Stop, dismount, and flag it across is safest.

Have seen enough fatal switching accident investigation videos with an employees' final moments caught on camera, to know that stuff happens fast.

Posted from Android



Date: 03/22/23 08:08
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: jtwlunch

I agree safest move is to stop short and flag a crossing where you can run away from a motorist.  Fussees help at night beyond what a lantern can provide.  A fussee on the end of the car is good too.  We were switching over a light traffic crossing at night in South Wichita during the summer of 1973 with 3 of us on the ground on the crossing with switch lights and the engine foreman with a fussee in hand and we saw a car coming at is and we are all giving wash out signals to get him stopped and the driver kept coming.  The driver decided he was going through no matter what, as he approached you could see he had his car windows down.  So the engine foreman starts yelling and cursing at the guy to stop and as he continues on by us the engine foreman throws the fusee in the car with the driver.  The cut comes on across the crossing and we hear the screeching of car brakes on the other side.  When the shove move was done, we looked across and the car was gone and the fusee was still burning in the middle of the street.



Date: 03/22/23 13:51
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: longliveSP

AmHog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, the carriers could provide a caboose or
> shoving platform to protect its workers. Guess
> that would be asking too much.

Didn't think that through?

Exactly how would that work shoving a cut onto a dead end track? 



Date: 03/22/23 14:44
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: Juniata

longliveSP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AmHog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, the carriers could provide a caboose or
> > shoving platform to protect its workers. Guess
> > that would be asking too much.
>
> Didn't think that through?
>
> Exactly how would that work shoving a cut onto a
> dead end track? 

A really big “0-5-0”* maybe…😉

CW


* - Model Railroad terminology for picking it up with your hand.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 03/22/23 19:02
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: AmHog

longliveSP Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AmHog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, the carriers could provide a caboose or
> > shoving platform to protect its workers. Guess
> > that would be asking too much.
>
> Didn't think that through?
>
> Exactly how would that work shoving a cut onto a
> dead end track? 


Obviously, that would be a case where a shoving platform wouldn't work.  What's your point?  It would have prevented this conductor's death.



Date: 03/22/23 19:12
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: bioyans

> Obviously, that would be a case where a shoving
> platform wouldn't work.  What's your point?  It
> would have prevented this conductor's death.

From what I've seen documented on the incident, a shoving platform would have not been practical to use. The incident occurred on a private crossing within an industry.

Posted from Android



Date: 03/22/23 19:39
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: Lackawanna484

Any thoughts on riding on top of a car during a shove?  I've observed a few employees riding on the inside of a loaded sand or stone hopper. Holding onto the top edge of the car.  On the one hand, you're up high and you're inside. Just about impossible to be thrown off, or thrown under the car.  The downside is you could be thrown onto a bed of crushed rocks.  Sand would be a lot better.



Date: 03/22/23 20:43
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: JasonCNW

I have had to ride many shove moves on diffrent types of cars and ive often wondered why cant csr builders/railroads come up with a better design for riding shoves or make grab irons/stirrups more comfortable to ride?
JC



Date: 03/23/23 08:42
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: TAW

jtwlunch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>  we saw a car coming at
> is and we are all giving wash out signals to get
> him stopped and the driver kept coming.

Back in the days when gates were made out of lumber, I called the (B&OCT) signal maintainer for a broken gate at Lincoln Ave. in Dolton. Railfans who hang out at the IHB-BOCT-UP crossing will recognize it. The cop shop was just south of the crossings. Traffic wouldn't stop for the maintainer. They would use the fusee he was holding as a target instead of stopping or making room. The cops, who hated the railroads, wouldn't help. The maintainer went back to the shanty, returned with a case of fusees, set them down on the pavement in the southbound lanes...
and set it on fire. Traffic stopped ok. He got the gate fixed and left. The blaze melted a crater in the asphalt.

TAW
 



Date: 03/23/23 09:02
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: Lackawanna484

JasonCNW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have had to ride many shove moves on diffrent
> types of cars and ive often wondered why cant csr
> builders/railroads come up with a better design
> for riding shoves or make grab irons/stirrups more
> comfortable to ride?
> JC

The short line San Manuel Arizona had several ore hoppers equipped with small shelters on one end. Looked like a cross between a telephone booth and a dog house. Specifically for shove moves.



Date: 03/23/23 10:22
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: ns1000

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Any thoughts on riding on top of a car during a
> shove?  I've observed a few employees riding on
> the inside of a loaded sand or stone hopper.
> Holding onto the top edge of the car.  On the one
> hand, you're up high and you're inside. Just about
> impossible to be thrown off, or thrown under the
> car.  The downside is you could be thrown onto a
> bed of crushed rocks.  Sand would be a lot
> better.

I don't see how this is any safer/less risky. It actually reminds me of brakemen that walked on top of RR cars of years ago. I knew someone that did this for awhile and hated it.......

FWIW, the only RR car that I have seen this done before (I was railfanning) in is a gondola.

Posted from Android



Date: 03/24/23 13:35
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: longliveSP

AmHog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> longliveSP Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > AmHog Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Well, the carriers could provide a caboose or
> > > shoving platform to protect its workers.
> Guess
> > > that would be asking too much.
> >
> > Didn't think that through?
> >
> > Exactly how would that work shoving a cut onto
> a
> > dead end track? 
>
>
> Obviously, that would be a case where a shoving
> platform wouldn't work.  What's your point?  It
> would have prevented this conductor's death.

Nope it would not, as my understanding that is exactly the case here, a dead end track within a private company.



Date: 03/25/23 06:30
Re: FRA Issues Safety Bulletin on Shove Moves
Author: Bunny218

Just to enlighten everyone here, this was NOT a shove into a dead end track. So riding a caboose would have definitely been a better way of doing this. The crossing was indeed on private industrial land, but the train was shoving back to the NS yard from wherever they made the pickup.



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