Eastern Railroad Discussion > Q: does NS classify trash haulage in containers as "intermodal"?

Does Norfolk Southern classify revenue arising from transporting loads of municipal waste in containers such as the blue Republic containers or re-purposed open top steamship containers as "intermodal", "merchandise", or bulk"?
It has become a pretty significant business for NS and Pan Am Southern in recent years.

Thanks.

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Providing an example symbol would help answer that.
/Ted

Maybe NS train 11R ?

WM_1109 Wrote:
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> Providing an example symbol would help answer
> that.
> /Ted

Loaded blue Republic trash containers often are head out on NS IM train 265 out of Ayer to Binghamton or Buffalo while the steamship loads go via manifest 11R. And loaded steamship containers run on 289 out of Croxton to Allentown I believe. But the steamship containers (empties and loads) mostly run on manifest trains and empty Republics cone east from Bellevue on manifest 316.

WM_1109 Wrote:
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> Providing an example symbol would help answer that.
> /Ted

Or not.

Might they be "flexible", and assign the revenue to whichever business segment needs a boost to their numbers that quarter?
/Ted

Ah! The Stinky Slinkies".
Go

I am asking an accounting question and not an operations question. That is, does trash business get added to IM revenues and units each quarter and is its recent growth meaningful in the IM figures?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/24 09:06 by JPB.

JPB Wrote:
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> I am asking an accounting question and not an
> operations question. That is, does trash business
> get added to IM revenues and units each quarter
> and is its recent growth meaningful in the IM
> figures?

That's a good question. I don't know, but my opinion is that if the containers are handled between the customer's own terminals, I would not consider them intermodal.

JPB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am asking an accounting question and not an
> operations question. That is, does trash business
> get added to IM revenues and units each quarter
> and is its recent growth meaningful in the IM
> figures?

Trash (MSW and C&D) falls under the waste group which in turn is under industrial products in the marketing group which is part of what would be considered a merchandise carload as opposed to intermodal. The intermodal group is an entirely different group with its own terminals, sales, marketing, business model, and revenue bucket.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/24 14:53 by DJ-12.

DJ-12 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JPB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am asking an accounting question and not an
> > operations question. That is, does trash
> business
> > get added to IM revenues and units each quarter
> > and is its recent growth meaningful in the IM
> > figures?
>
> Trash (MSW and C&D) falls under the waste group
> which in turn is under industrial products in the
> marketing group which is part of what would be
> consider a merchandise carload as opposed to
> intermodal. The intermodal group is an entirely
> different group with its own terminals, sales,
> marketing, business model, and revenue bucket.
>
> Posted from iPhone

Excellent! That makes sense - thanks very much for the clarification.

It would be interesting to see the stats on those.   From what I've seen, they probably have better dock-to-dock delivery and OT stats than Amtrak or merchandise moves.

*&$$# what's that smell, get a crew and get that $%##! thing moving out of here.... more or less like the stock trains of past eras.

While they aren't terrible, they are still 'recognizable'.....

I've been told this is NOTHING like the carloads of raw hides that came inbound to Pennsylvania tanneries for decades up until the 50's.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/24 10:17 by randgust.

JPB, I am not sure how NS counts these containers. But I do know that there's a difference between Union Pacific's reported intermodal container volume figures and the AAR's reported Union Pacific intermodal container figures. Why? UP does not count containerized trash loads as intermodal containers. AAR does. That's not to say NS counts these the same way, but at least some railroads don't view double-stacked trash as an intermodal load.

Now thart's an interesting signal tower.  Not sure what the small signals to the side of the middle ones indicate...??

MP403 Wrote:
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> JPB, I am not sure how NS counts these containers.
> But I do know that there's a difference between
> Union Pacific's reported intermodal container
> volume figures and the AAR's reported Union
> Pacific intermodal container figures. Why? UP does
> not count containerized trash loads as intermodal
> containers. AAR does.

AAR I believe goes by equipment type. 

JPB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> WM_1109 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Providing an example symbol would help answer
> > that.
> > /Ted
>
> Loaded blue Republic trash containers often are
> head out on NS IM train 265 out of Ayer to
> Binghamton or Buffalo while the steamship loads go
> via manifest 11R. And loaded steamship containers
> run on 289 out of Croxton to Allentown I believe.
> But the steamship containers (empties and loads)
> mostly run on manifest trains and empty Republics
> cone east from Bellevue on manifest 316.


289 handles the loaded trash to Alabama (most of the time)....dropped off in Tennessee.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/24 04:00 by ns1000.