Eastern Railroad Discussion > UP CEO Jim Vera to Birmingham, AL

UP CEO Jim Vera is scheduled to visit Norfolk Southern's Norris Yard in Irondale, AL this Friday Jan 9th.

Don't know the details. Checking out what they're buying. Guess wth them closing Macon, Inman, Sheffield, New Orleans & Memphis they want to see what's left.
 

Mouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UP CEO Jim Vera is scheduled to visit Norfolk
> Southern's Norris Yard in Irondale, AL this Friday
> Jan 9th.
>
> Don't know the details. Checking out what they're
> buying. Guess wth them closing Macon, Inman,
> Sheffield, New Orleans & Memphis they want to see
> what's left.
>  

I thought they re-opened the Macon hump?

Seriously, Vena probably saw how many hump yards NS still has operating and is making a list of closures.

In the same line of thinking (ie probablilities of what NS will look like after UP takes over), I would wager that the famous PRR, now NS, Juniata locomotive back shop In Altoona PA will be (eventually) shut down.  UP has a modern large back shop at North Little Rock AR, I'd bet that becomes the new combined system back shop.

Forgive my ignorance. Were these closures in process prior to the announced merger, or is this part of the synergies that will be realized to keep shareholder dividends flowing and keep stock buybacks happening? I'm curious if NS is looking to cash out on real estate (e.g. with Inman) similar to how CSX did with Tilford.

I kind of get how airlines are looking to move away from a purely traditional hub-and-spoke model to a more fluid point-to-point model where they can focus on competing in higher value routes. I don't know how that works with railroads, however, given that they are constrained to follow existing lines and routes and can't just go directly from Point A to point B. So now all of that investment in infrastructure that was made based on a century of knowledge in improving car handling and movement of goods is going to get ripped out? Has the business changed that much such that hump yards are antiquated relics that truly are unnecessary in the 21st century for rail operations, or is this just a play to find assets to sell and costs to reduce in order to keep Wall Street happy? I'd love to get an unbiased analysis of the situation, but I suspect both sides will argue passionately about the state of the industry and motives behind these decisions.

Mouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UP CEO Jim Vera is scheduled to visit Norfolk
> Southern's Norris Yard in Irondale, AL this Friday
> Jan 9th.
>
> Don't know the details. Checking out what they're
> buying. Guess wth them closing Macon, Inman,
> Sheffield, New Orleans & Memphis they want to see
> what's left.
>  

I wonder if he's visiting Mercedes Benz and the other auto assemblers in the general area?  NS has several plants in its rail network

Reprtedly, hump yards are only cost effective when they have enough volume.

Victor Baird

broken_link Wrote:
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>
Has
> the business changed that much such that hump
> yards are antiquated relics that truly are
> unnecessary in the 21st century for rail
> operations, or is this just a play to find assets
> to sell and costs to reduce in order to keep Wall
> Street happy?

I sure hope he's NOT looking to shut down more yards.  If you want carload traffic to grow, you'll need the humps, right?  Tearing out the retarders in Hinkle seemed to be a very dumb move, making a "flat switching" yard over a hump now!  Crazy thinking.  Easy for management to do, but hard on the employees.

 

Who says UP (or any other Class 1) wants carload traffic to grow?  It's all about intermodal and unit trains.

Jeff Gast
Greenwood, Indiana  

Truth is, they want the RIGHT traffic to grow. G&W plus WATCO are a couple hundred
thousand cars per month, who is going to haul all that between prime locations?

Out 

I have wondered the same thing that Ticeska brought up earlier in this thread! I wonder if Altoona will be shuttered also? It is a sad thing to note but I believe the current NS will look nothing like the NS after the takeover. Now granted this is from a retired SP Locomotive Engineer...But I lived its meltdowns and all. Omaha will do things that the current employees will say no way will that work, and they probably will be right! I hope I am wrong.

Mouse Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> UP CEO Jim Vera is scheduled to visit Norfolk
> Southern's Norris Yard in Irondale, AL this Friday
> Jan 9th.
>
> Don't know the details. Checking out what they're
> buying. Guess wth them closing Macon, Inman,
> Sheffield, New Orleans & Memphis they want to see
> what's left.
>  

Could you elaborate more on these terminal closures.  What will there be for terminals to switch large amounts of traffic in the South?  

coach, the rr is not concerned about how hard it is on the employees.

Sam

Northern Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mouse Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > UP CEO Jim Vera is scheduled to visit Norfolk
> > Southern's Norris Yard in Irondale, AL this
> Friday
> > Jan 9th.
> >
> > Don't know the details. Checking out what
> they're
> > buying. Guess wth them closing Macon, Inman,
> > Sheffield, New Orleans & Memphis they want to
> see
> > what's left.
> >  
>
> Could you elaborate more on these terminal
> closures.  What will there be for terminals to
> switch large amounts of traffic in the South?  

I think he was talking about terminals that NS has already previously closed.  NS had also closed Chattanooga and Bellevue OH hump yards during its first round of PSR; however later, smarter managers realized it wasn't working so they reopened them.  Seriously, I don't think there is anyone in UP management which is that smart.  I predict UP will be taking a huge hatchet to NS' facilities:  There isn't going to be any traffic growth with their current pathetic levels of service, so they will have to do some serious cannibalization to show some cost savings for this merger.

The shops at those locations will be closing. As well as shops in Louiseville, Kansas City and Decatur. Inman is mostly intermodal.

Understand he is flying into Mobile and then to Birmingham.

sp3204 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is a sad thing
> to note but I believe the current NS will look
> nothing like the NS after the takeover. Now
> granted this is from a retired SP Locomotive
> Engineer...But I lived its meltdowns and all.
> Omaha will do things that the current employees
> will say no way will that work, and they probably
> will be right! I hope I am wrong.

No worries....you are NOT wrong. Make no mistake, there will be a HIGH price for your "Coast to Coast Railroad" (and I don't mean money)?!?!

But hey, Vena will make everyone feel good when UP 4014 comes to the east coast (eyeroll).....

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/26 05:47 by ns1000.

sp3204 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
.
> Omaha will do things that the current employees
> will say no way will that work, and they probably
> will be right! I hope I am wrong.

Pull up another track over Horseshoe Curve.

Shortline the old NKP from Chicago east.

Move the dispatchers to Omaha to improve productivity.

UP will show the NS how it should have been done.

Congestion ? Who cares. Find another railroad to handle your s××t.

Englewood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sp3204 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> .
> > Omaha will do things that the current employees
> > will say no way will that work, and they
> probably
> > will be right! I hope I am wrong.
>
> Pull up another track over Horseshoe Curve.
>

Conrail already did that, and people on here praise it.  So maybe it's the way to go. 

If the company decided to pull up a track on Horseshoe Curve, they would probably close / abandon the New Portage tunnel at Gallitzin, too.  Don't need that flexibility, alternatives, etc

Englewood Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pull up another track over Horseshoe Curve.
>
> Shortline the old NKP from Chicago east.
>
> Move the dispatchers to Omaha to improve
> productivity.
>
> UP will show the NS how it should have been done.
>
> Congestion ? Who cares. Find another railroad to
> handle your s××t.

UP hasn't pulled up the triple track across Nebraska, with only a bit more traffic but not on the major grades between Chicago and the northeast.  I doubt they'll pull it Altoona-Johnstown.

I posted this on the west board, but I probably was responding more to this thread:

The merger document says Rossville would be mothballed and traffic shifted to Marion, both in the St. Louis area would remain in use, and KC would see one focused on domestic intermodal and the other on international stacks.  Reading between the lines it reads like the larger Voltz would be domestic and the new 18th St. international.  18th is now visible on Google Earth if you choose the latest date available.  I think it said Chicago will seem some reordering, with G2 getting more traffic, G4 less (increased run through of Chicago), 47th more, Park Manor idled, with Landers and Calumet remaining about the same.

I'd guess the proposed new Lathrop and LA intermodals to the east coast are based on grabbing traffic from BNSF.  Hard to see why the merger would make enough difference to lure trucks not already using rail in a such a long corridor.  Maybe off the CSX I001 and I002, that were reported to be trucked from Chicago to LA because UP and BNSF wouldn't agree to the rate diversion/transit time required, so a faster one carrier option might work, but that's usually less than 50 containers and trailers each way, once per week.

But I think I'm now in favor of the merger because it will pull new traffic from trucks in the central areas near the transfer points, where for whatever reason the railroads shun short-haul to gateways.  Drays from Chicago to Detroit will go all the way with a single carrier option now, and there are opportunities for similar to Ohio.  Same further south, where UP says it will reopen the McCalla, AL ramp.  E-Port in North Jersey will be reopened, as will Greencastle, PA, probably to serve Baltimore from the south and southwest, and maybe overflow for Harrisburg/Rutherford.  (It says NS already closed their Baltimore intermodal yard.)

Houston will get an intermodal pair to Atlanta, with connections to ramps in Florida, North Carolina, Ohio, and the northeast.  New markets from Houston except for perhaps to the northeast via Chicago (and if so that is probably now a rubber tire interchange).  Several of these were large, untapped market pairs, so will be conversions from trucks.  Similar from Mexico, Laredo, and San Antonio with another new intermodal pair also via New Orleans, some new and some a redirect of less efficient interchanges in Chicago or Memphis.  UP is projecting a big increase out of Omaha, enough to build a new intermodal yard, presumably to eastern markets that may currently be trucked from Iowa and Nebraska to Chicago or east.

Mergers rarely see all the new traffic that the participants claim when arguing to merge, and I doubt this one will be much different.  But I'm convinced UP-NS will pull significant traffic from the road in the center of the country and produce a net gain in rail usage.  UP looks to reopen and run more intermodal market pairs then NS does currently, and UP runs a lot more pairs than BNSF.  (I'm not sure that the likely BNSF-CSX merger response after UP-NS is approved will have as much new road to rail conversion, unless BNSF changes its philosophy.)   

Contrary to the board group think, UP under Vena has expanded intermodal, added more destinations from places like Houston, opened Inland Empire and KC, and is already moving forward with other expansions.  They've also pursued higher margin mixed freight, reopened the mothballed Hearne, TX yard, along with new industrial yards in Texas.  They've continued to add capacity such as new or extended sidings, such as on the Livonia-DeQuincy, LA line that serves the lucrative oil and plastics industries and Mexico gateway.  I don't like the way they still treat labor, and too much emphasis on op ratio, but this isn't currently a sit and retrench mentaility towards traffic.    And we've already noted the pre-merger planned and in progress expansion of the Sunset route in Arizona.  Add to that soon significant expansion of Houston Settegast and Inland Empire intermodal.  As for NS, merger or no merger, there is zero chance Inman intermodal in Atlanta is reduced or sold off, it's a huge hub at a key junction that will only increase in importance.

Besides, if we get down to two major transcontinental railroads and it doesn't work out, the next step is probably going to be some type of forced separation of operations and track.  Some type of real open access and perhaps 2 major toll railroads.  Which might be the best final outcome, somewhat similar to our road and river networks.  Our current 2 x 2 and Canadian minors system is suboptimal.   
 

baretables Wrote:

> international.  18th is now visible on Google
> Earth if you choose the latest date available.  

How do you update the date? Thanks,

Bruce