Model Railroading > Scale Trains heads up and a few pictures

So I wanted to let u know about a policy at Scale Trains so folks are educated. After only having my ST HO Scale Trains T4's for just 48 hours, I decided I wanted to return them. The deal breaker for me was the lighting. It was very very poor and that is important to me. On my units, the lighting was very poor and one of the ditchlights on each of the units could not even be seen. Other issues for me was that the CSX Gold was too brownish in color and the extra knuckles on the rear were N scale in size. The number boards were sloppily assembled and the windshields were not flush. Glue marks all over the place.

I emailed Scale Trains requesting a return 2 times and did not get a reply. So I decided to box them up and send them back with a note and I sent them 2-day air and required a signature. I also insured them. It was not a cheap shipping charge LOL. Anyways, I waited several days after I knew they had been signed for and did not hear from them. I know they are a small shop and have allot to get done so I called them and got a nice lady on the phone. Explained the situation and she knew about my return. So she then notified me that Scale Trains does not take returns and all sales are final. She also notified me that I just needed to tell her what was wrong with them and their service manager would repair them and ship them back. I smiled of course as the things that were issues are not really repairable. Would the service manager rewire the LED's? Would he repaint the CSX gold for me? Would he install scale knuckles? would he rebuild the numberboards and windshields? How about all the glue marks? Anyways, I kindly asked her to give me the refund as I was not interested in the service offer. I told her that if I was refused, I would file a claim with VISA. I was comfortable VISA would take care of things if they refused me. She kindly told me she would speak to management and get back to me. We spoke the next day and she told me the following. "Bruce, I spoke to Shane and he will issue you the credit but you have one HO CSX SD40-3 on preorder from us and this will be canceled if u move forward with the refund and we will not take any new orders from you." I kindly accepted the refund and I was fired as a customer. The lady I worked with was super nice and professional FYI.

I'm fine with this. So folks, please understand that all sales are final with Scale Trains. It is their business and they can do whatever they want. I have been told since then that they have the same policy with their dealers. They will repair or replace damaged product but all sales are final. Maybe this is a common policy in the model train world and I am just not aware of it. Anyways, for those that are happy with your ST T4's, enjoy them. My experience was not good but I see many others are happy. Finally, there is already a Youtube video from a guy who replaced his LED's for his ST T4's and I have heard from many others privately about the lighting issue with them. If you notice, the majority of reviews on the ST T4's on Youtube are done with the lights out in the room LOL. Come on people.

Have a good weekend. I wish Scale Trains all the best.

Bruce


If you wondering what the inside looked like on a ST T4, here u go. I opened one to see if I could fix the LED lighting issue. In the first picture, I thought the bumps were the speakers in the rear but they are just weights. The speakers are actually trapped inside the weighted area and would be pretty hard to replace or service. On the IM T4's, you don't even need to take off the shell. Remove the rear hatch and the speakers are right there. Nice design.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/17 06:07 by brfriedm.

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Pictures of the inside of the shell and LED setup. I am guessing the issue is there is too much of a gap between the LED's and the light pipes. Can be fixed for sure. You can see the difference with the lights on in the room here. Obviously the IM on the left and ST on the right. Be well. Bruce

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brfriedm Wrote:
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> Pictures of the inside of the shell and LED setup.
> I am guessing the issue is there is too much of a
> gap between the LED's and the light pipes. Can be
> fixed for sure. You can see the difference with
> the lights on in the room here. Obviously the IM
> on the left and ST on the right. Be well. Bruce

I have no dog in this fight and I agree that the lighting, windshield's and number boards are all issues.  However, I think the ST gold looks more like the CSX goldenrod myself.

My review shows ditch lights with lights on and off...my head to head comparison shows IM with stronger lighting intensity and I stated so....but all of my units had ditch lights much like your right ditch light in the side by side photo above which I found acceptable, although not bright. I wasn't aware of the no return policy, I'm not sure if other direct sales companies like Exactrail have the same policy or something different.

-James



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/17 07:45 by JLW2K.

So you think that there policy of no return is bad? Oh well they offered to fix it and you didn't let them?

My experience with them was this, I had a gauge problem with my Turbine, they sent me a shipping ticket, fixed the problem and sent it back along with emails that were very nice and up to date. I had another problem upon the return of them, the wheel slip units, two of them were missing. Emailed them, few days later here they were again with a note.

Oh yes and they were re gauged and ran fine upon there return. Most of my other HO units have to be re gauged out of the box, couplers replaced on many due to the POS plastic couplers. Have also bought older new Proto units and had to replace the gears.

If and when I am in the market for one of there products that fit my needs will buy it no problem. I think that you expected something that they and many others do not do. Read there fine print and then buy. Oh and a side note bought a Turbine tender, all of the steam tender series and they are great running and looking much better than ANYTHING else offered.

By the way since we are not texting the word is YOU not U.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/17 08:10 by BAB.

By the way BAB, since you are going to nit pick Bruce for no reason, let's use some proper English here. It is THEIR, not THERE.

BAB Wrote:
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> So you think that there policy of no return is
> bad?
>
>
> By the way since we are not texting the word is
> YOU not U.

The big problem I see here is that people are having to buy products directly from a manufacturer sight unseen. You have to look at pictures on line and read reviews by others to decide if you want to buy a model or not. If you get the model in your hands and decide it has issues in the design that bothers you (every model has them) then your only recourse is to turn around and sell the model on eBay. If the buyer had a chance to look at it at a brick and morter hobby shop then he would have passed on it before getting into this fix.
My local hobby shop sets their prices roughly equal to the discount price you see on-line plus shipping costs. I rather buy from them (and support them) than buy from online sellers. Plus when buying a locomotive I get to inspect and test run it before putting my money down. I guess I'm old school.

>
> By the way since we are not texting the word is
> YOU not U.


Anything else to complain about?

Uncle Joe
Seffner,Fl.

Uncle Joe,

Ignore BAB, he is nothing more than an internet troll. He's been trolling here for years. Thanks. Bruce


retcsxcfm Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > By the way since we are not texting the word
> is
> > YOU not U.
>
>
> Anything else to complain about?
>
> Uncle Joe
> Seffner,Fl.

Just my opinion on this topic, we all have our gripes about model quality. In this case OP had legitimate concerns, but I think
he should of took the time to contact ST before sending units back without even an RMA.

As for return policy, I couldn't find anything on ST site.. only this:
"5. PRODUCTS OR SERVICES

Certain products or services may be available exclusively online through the website. These products or services may have limited
quantities and are subject to return or exchange only according to our Return Policy."

Doesn't seam like the best approach to customer service if you want happy customers. Businesses like to dream up there own policies but if you take PayPal/credit cards etc you take returns. If you want no returns cash/check only........Joe

brfriedm Wrote:
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> Uncle Joe,
>
> Ignore BAB, he is nothing more than an internet
> troll. He's been trolling here for years. Thanks.
> Bruce

I like trolls. They taste like chicken.

I have grown up my entire life within 15 miles of "The Train Shop" in Santa Clara, Ca. I preordered two, got a call, went down for a test run, liked it and made a purchase. Some of us do take for granted living near a reasonably priced, well stocked model train store. I am very happy with my Union Pacific T4 - even after reading less than satisfactory reviews. I think Scale Trains shot themselves in the foot calling it "Rivet Counter" - We all expected perfection. I do salute Scale Trains making a competitive product in a shrinking and difficult market place.

SPDRGWfan Wrote:
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> ESPEE5318 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Doesn't seam like the best approach to customer
> > service if you want happy customers. Businesses
> > like to dream up there own policies but if you
> > take PayPal/credit cards etc you take returns.
> If
> > you want no returns cash/check only........Joe
>
> If you were running a business like
> that, your perspective might be more sympathetic
> to ST
>
> Cheers, Jim
>
> Posted from Android

I do run a business.... Joe

Posted from iPhone

SteveHIFI Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just my opinion on this topic, we all have our
> gripes about model quality. In this case OP had
> legitimate concerns, but I think
> he should of took the time to contact ST before
> sending units back without even an RMA.
>
> As for return policy, I couldn't find anything on
> ST site.. only this:
> "5. PRODUCTS OR SERVICES
>
> Certain products or services may be available
> exclusively online through the website. These
> products or services may have limited
> quantities and are subject to return or exchange
> only according to our Return Policy."

If you had bothered to actually read his post you would have seen that he e-mailed them twice with no reply before he sent them back...

Sorry for your troubles but ST does have the right to stop accepting orders from you. They offered to fix it but you refused. I have had nothing but great dealings with ST and they have always been willing to correct any problem.

Again sorry it did not work out for you.

SPDRGWfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ESPEE5318 Wrote:
> >
> > I do run a business.... Joe
> >
>
> So you should be able to empathize with their
> situation, assuming your business is anything like
> what they are doing.
>
> Cheers, Jim

I guess I just have a different approach to customer service. I would of just taken the return and been out nothing and kept Bruce as a customer buying my products in the future rather that writing him off as a customer. But that is just me I want happy customers. Now if Bruce was a "problem customer" different story yes by all means write him off and block etc but I don't see a simple return as a problem customer. Being that ST is a fairly new manufacturer they need to be keeping customers happy. If ST was just manufacturing and using dealers to handle sales/customers different story but they are selling direct to customers, customers are going want to return something on occasion, not a big deal what was ST out taking the return? The result of their approach is they are now out a customer, and I'm sure some people that were thinking about preordering now reading about there policy might be rethinking about preordering.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/17 19:53 by ESPEE5318.

Now imagine, Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, et al cut their dealers out of the sales mix. All cars or trucks were ordered from the factory and a car hauler dropped it off at your door. You had to do the "dealer prep" on your own. Can you see where this is going?? If you didn't like the color or the way the headlights shine, do you just send it back to whichever factory sent it to you?? How close to perfection do we really expect?

I pre-ordered two ST..and also have two IM. I was rooting for ST.. but sadly I think they have brought too much horizon attitude with them. I understand that your not going to please everyone. .but to stay successful you darn better try! I will not be buying much more ST, I don't care for the attitude. I'll stick with IM for future tier 4's I had one little issue with them (IM) and they bent over backwards trying to make the situation correct and they did without the attitude of we're ST and we are the new law. Customer service (attitude, not words) goes a long way In my book. I'll get off my soapbox now! :-)

Posted from Android

Better to lose one sale than one customer I always say.. hopefully ST humbles themselves so they can stay in business. .the pie is only so big



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/17 21:52 by trainupaboy.