Model Railroading > Why is this causing a short?

Why would this crossover be causing a short? I haven't wired it yet - the entre rest of the layout is wired, yet when I created this, it shorts.

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Are the frogs insulated or live? If they're live, are there insulated track joints?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/21 16:58 by tehachapifan.

tehachapifan Wrote:
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> Are the frogs insulated or live? If they're live,
> are there insulated track joints?

I believe it is insulated. When I turn the power pack on, I can hear a buzz at the bottom right of this picture



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/21 17:17 by TEEKAY.

To me, those findings would indicate the frogs are live. In which case, my experience is that this is can ususally be easily solved with some insulated track gaps. What brand track is this? are you powering with DCC and are you getting a short indication?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/21 17:32 by tehachapifan.

This is Atlas Code-83. I am using a DCC pack and its message is either "SVDA" or "OLVD"

Forgive me, as I'm not totally up to speed with live vs insulated. You are probably right

If the frogs are live, here's how the short occurs. For the sake of clarity, observe the left rail on each main track as "red" and the right rail on each main track as "blue". If the points are set to crossover from one track to the other and taking into consideration that the points will conduct electricity into the crossover track and into the frog, can you see how "blue" will come into direct contact and short with "red"?

 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/21 18:21 by tehachapifan.

Try putting a gap or insulators in the track that runs btw the turnouts  Also, where are your power feeders? Are any on the frog end instead of the points end?

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/21 19:02 by wabash2800.

It's Atlas, the frogs are dead unless separately powered.  Even then they're isolated from the rails.

Just looking at it in isolation, there's no particular reason it should be shorting unless there's some metal or some such I can't see.  However, without knowing where those tracks go, does it somehow form a reverse loop between the two tracks with the rest of the layout?

Here's some diagrams I found online that explains what I was talking about a little clearer (I hope it's OK to post this link)...

Model Railway Digital Command Control (DCC) - Wiring a layout (newrailwaymodellers.co.uk)

If what is said above is true, that the Atlas frogs are insulated, then I'm not sure what's going on.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/21 18:39 by tehachapifan.

I had a defective Atlas #6 switch that had a built-in short at the frog. That proved to be frustrating to find!

Ted Curphey
Ontario, OR

It's nearly impossible to really see what going on here, but what's that just above the left hand turnout on the right hand side? There's something just beyond the rail joiners coming out from between the rails and snaking over the right hand rail.

Very simple.  You forgot the gaps in both rails between the seitches.
 

barrydraper Wrote:
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> Very simple.  You forgot the gaps in both rails
> between the s(w)itches.
>  

Exactly. Gap the crossover.

~ Mr. MRL

Here's what this side of the layout looks like. Maybe I created a reverse loop?

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The others side (please excuse the mess) - the track ends after the bridge

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Yep, you got yourself a reverse loop alright. Both your yards access the main creating a loop when you installed your crossover.

The track plan clears this up, yes you have created basically a reverse loop.

Basically the + is colliding with the -

Any idea as where to start or some reasources that have helped you guys with this? I'm very confused by how to solve this from the internet

I've thinking this from the moment to read your description. Here is some reading for you.

Reversing Sections and Loops (dccwiki.com)

If I'm looking at it right, the easiest solution might be to eliminate one of the switches off the mainline. Maybe the one on the lower left? Are the tracks in the middle serving industries? Maybe a different track arrangment would help here.
 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/21 12:01 by tehachapifan.