Model Railroading > Sound decoder advice

I am finally in the process of changing over to DCC after 20 years of using Railcommand.  Since having sound is the major incentive for this move, I am hoping for some sane guidance on the current crop of sound decoders and speakers.

Most of my remaining locomotive fleet is all KATO EMD, SD40's, SD45's and GP35's.  I have viewed plenty of online video's of sound installations in these units, but most of those are over 10 years old and out of date in terms of the products used.  I imagine decoder and speaker technology has improved greatly since then.  What current decoders and speakers would you use to retrofit these units?  

I haven't settled on a DCC system yet, although having used Railcommand in the past, I am leaning heavily towards Easy DCC, with NCE an alternative.  If certain decoders and speakers don't play well with these systems, that is worth knowing also.

I look forward to your responses.

Mike Peters
Brentwood, MO

You're going to get a ton of options and people are going to claim one product over another, I'll let them speak. My advise, get one brand of decoder and stick with it. I've found programming different decoders are harder to remember than speed matching different manufacturers motors/engines. 

LOK sound has a software that is easy to use. JMRI has a GUI available for programming. Or you can memorize a bunch of CV's. Each has their pros/cons, but if you do one vs. all 3, I believe it's overall easier to manage the differences. That's my 2 cents...next...

Mike ONeill
Parker, CO

Well the answer is do you like Ford, dodge or Chevy? This question has plagued the hobby for years and you will get lots of answers, including why don't you do a search for it. I really hate that answer. I would suggest if you have a real local train store, go ask if they will demo the different equipped locomotives for you. If not find modelers local to you and see what they have. 

I was in the same position as you were until I went to view the layout of Jim Dias. I was sold on sound.  I have operated NCE, easy DCC and Digitrax and easiest for me was NCE with easy DCC a close second. As for decoders I have mostly tsunami and tsunami2s and a couple lokSounds. I had some QSI decoders but got rid of most of them and replaced them with tsunami. Speakers pretty much h falls in how much you can pack into available space. Lots of choices and opinions on the best way to go, but I'm not very experienced in that area. I am a big fan of tsunami2s. But this is all just my opinion and probably wouldn't even get you crackers to go with a bowl of soup.
I do agree to sticking to one brand, make life easier on yourself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/21 12:03 by TomG.

NCE is a great choice but so is Digitrax although many feel it's more complicated overall. I use MRC Prodigy wireless which has been nearly flawless for 10 plus years. Point is you can't really go wrong.

Decoders ESU V5 and Soundtraxx Tsunami2's are fantastic. Like the DCC systems, some find ESU more complicated. They have a propriety programmer to help you with programming. This could be a hobby within the hobby. Soundtraxx offers a budget option that is quite good called Econumi which could be very helpful if you have a large fleet to update. A Mother board called The Decoder Buddy is something you'll want to look into for making installation simple and easy. Speakers by Scale Sound Systems and RailMasters are great. As a side note you'll want to look at keep Alive capacitors for soomth running also.

it sounds as though you plan to upgrade your existing DC locomotives.  If they do not already have "DCC ready" boards installed in them, I suggest you do yourself a favor and use a Decoder Buddy instead of trying to modify the DC boards.  This will greatly simplify your installations, ensures your connections are correct,  and give you a standard board to work with across your fleet.

https://nixtrainz.com/

As far as the decoder manufacturer- I suggest you try out the major DCC operating systems and then purchase decoders from the same manufacturer.  In my experience, this seems to cut down on system errors and make consisting (linking more than one locomotive to work together) easier.  I chose the ESU system as I found most of the locomotives I purchased had their decoders installed and they have some neat additional tech that works in concert with the DCC signaling.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/21 14:52 by mpe383.

Digitrax is a good system and has more bells and whistles but can take more time to figure out. It has been around for awhile and is well supported and popular. Some folks and layout clubs have resorted to having their own guru handle the tech issues. You will see many questions online reference this system but there are support groups too. Perhaps this is because of the many enhancements and add-ons over time.From what I understand, the manual is quite a book.

NCE is well known and reported to be more intuitive and easy to understand. Many of the leading modelers use it. At first I didn't like the looks of that hand-held that looks like an oversized TV remote but have since realized that it is used for programming too. Easy DCC (at least my version) uses a panel that mounts on the layout for that function. I think Digitrax does too. NCE also has standard hand-held throttles. But having not used these systems, I stand to be corrected.

I have Easy DCC, but because I got a used system at a much reduced price. Having said that, my system is no longer supported. If I ever drop Easy DCC, I'll go with NCE.

As far as Decoders, LokSound might give you more options in that many sound files are down-loadable. That way, you can not only get a specific sound file for you make of locomotive (and prime mover) but get in on improvements over time. My biggest pet peeve with DCC sound is, that in most cases, the diesel air horn sound is very lame. It sounds like it is far off in the distance and is not very vibrant.

Also, I would highly recommend going with wireless unless you have a small layout. The extra money spent, especially if you have a walk around layout, is well spent. One thing to think about is if you are involved in operating on other folks' layout either as a roundrobin or NMRA viists is, you might want to see what modelers near you are using so that yo can bring your throttle and vice versa. Getting to know modelers in your area can also provide answers to your selection, problems and the socializing can be fun. The NMRA is the best way to hookup.

JMRI for programming is highly recommended. LokSound has its own programmer (expensive), though I understand JMRI can still be used but with some limitations. 

Victor



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/21 15:54 by wabash2800.

Approach your decision the same way you would approach designing a layout. Write out a list of what you want to accomplish, like how many trains you plan to run at the same time, how many users would be on the system, whether you would power your trains with single units or multiple engine consists.  That will give you a basis to compare systems; some are perfectly adequate for small railroads with two or three trains and a dozen engines in play but fall down when called on to handle more traffic.

When you know what size system you want, it's easier to compare costs in terms of throttles, power supplies, radion base stations and repeaters and so on

I would suggest that you go to Train Control Systems web sight and check that out as they have information on the instillation of their decoder in many locomotives.    dcc@tcs.com is their sight [ I think with out checking ].
Malcolm
New Zealand.

I would recommend use what your friends or clubs use in your area.
With Digitrax you can still run DC locos with it. 
I would also highly recommend JMRI for programming. If it weren't for JMRI I would not be in the hobby.
With JMRI you can do anything to an Loksound decoder except upload sounds.

Tim
Hanesworth

Hi, Mike!
I'll offer my own experience, preferences and suggestions. Keep in mind that this is free advice and worth every plug nickel.

> I am hoping for some sane guidance on the current crop of sound decoders and speakers.

As others have said, ask around, especially the locals and anyone whose layout you might run on. And remember that everyone has their own opinion that works for them.

> Most of my remaining locomotive fleet is all KATO EMD, SD40's, SD45's and GP35's

My first conversion was a Kato Dash 9. Listening to what was out there, and looking around, I chose a Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 PNP decoder. Many of Soundtraxx decoders are actually replacement PC boards that swap in replacing the factory boards. By and large they use the existing wiring, and it struck me when working on my third unit that the clean look of the installation might almost be called 'elegant in it's simplicity.' (As a side comment, generally Kato's bottom motor contact is positive.) TCS, NCE and a few others also make good dependable decoders, but for sound decoders I've tried to standardize on Soundtraxx because of their variety of available sounds and the ability to tweak the sound. The drawback, although I think this is true of most of them is cost. But there are a number of reputable dealers on-line that discount and carry a full line of decoders.

You didn't ask about DCC control systems and I'd just as soon stay away from that. I use Digitrax wireless at the local club and have an NCE Power Cab at home. They all have their pros and cons.

I use JMRI to program and 'demystify' my sound decoders. It works well with a lot of different decoders and is especially good with Soundtraxx and all their sound customization. The graphic interface is great for me because I'm a visual learner, and it has the bonus of saving all your loco decoders settings in case you need to reprogram one. But you can also just use your DCC controller and a notebook to keep track of settings.

> What current decoders and speakers would you use to retrofit these units?

Well, this reply may generate a lot of discussion. I've been using almost exclusively iPhone speakers. They're small, inexpensive, and amazingly good sounding. I've settled primarily on iPhone 7+ speakers for the sound, and figured out which unnecessary protrusions on the case can be removed without affecting sound. They're small enough that they can be stuck to the inside top of the shell. They're not as wide as a dash 9 long hood and only about an eighth of an inch thick. And they're standard 8 ohm. If you are tight on space, other iPhone speakers are even smaller. I have a few iPhone 7 speakers for use in short hoods like switchers. Thee are a lot of places online that sell them, and they're inexpensive enough that you could experiment with one pretty affordably.

Dano
Montana
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/21 22:19 by steeplecab.

I can't speak for diesel sound decoders, but if you run any steam it's really hard to beat the sound quality and smooth operation of Soundtraxx Tsunami 2 steam decoders.  Our club uses JMRI Decoder Pro for programming a wide variety of decoders and the Tsunami 2 decoders are easily programmed with this system.  One steam sound issue that bugs me about a lot of steam engines I've heard running is the syncronization of the "chuff" with the driver movement.  I have a nausea attack every time I hear a steam engine go by that is doing a visual 60 mph and the chuff is doing more like 20 mph (or vice versa).   That is easily adjusted to perfect with the Tsunami 2.  It also has the full list of functions (10 times what I think is necessary) and very smooth power control.  Soundtraxx speakers are also very good, although I'm sure others will work well also.   I installed my first Soundtraxx decoder in a PFM brass Hudson in about 1993.  In 2020, I had a 15-year-old friend replace it with a Tsunami 2 and speaker and I couldn't believe the improvement.  My friend then made the same installation in a 4-8-4 and a 2-10-4.  The right whistle selection was there for all three engines.

Have found that Soundtraxx  is very easy to program and using my NCE controler does NOT require any special soft ware or such just my hand held and a programing track. I have about twenty diesels and steam that are all and two that are Loc sound which are hard to deal with not having there programing stuff.  

You really can't go wrong with sound decoders from TCS, LOKSound, or Soundtrax.
Whatever you use, I highly recommend going with current keeper/ keep alive devices as well.

Some Kato diesels are tough to installsound decoders, because they are packed down with weights.
I gave up on a Kato NW2, there simply was no room and with weights gone, room for the
decoder/speaker but now no pulling power.

As far as systems go, I had Easy DCC for 20 years but recently ditched it as the manufacturer no
longer supported the throttles.  Darn good system otherwise.  I regularly operate on layouts using
NCE andDigitrax and they are both good products..
 

Something to also consider, if you are planning to use WiFi throttles with a system such as Digitrax or NCE, both of which can use Wifi with the right add-on, TCS makes some very nice WiFi throttles.  The UTW-100 is already out and on the market and very soon there will be the UWT-50 (due end of July).

Cheers,
Jim