Passenger Trains > Ouch! What's up with the Zephyr?

Bad weekend for the California Zephyr. Saturday's #5 arrived in Emeryville at about 4:30 a.m. Sunday...just a hair under 12 hours late. Given the time required by the Oakland yard crews to service the equipment, #6 won't be leaving Emeryville today until at least 11:30 a.m., more than two hours late.

MarinCommuter Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bad weekend for the California Zephyr. Saturday's
> #5 arrived in Emeryville at about 4:30 a.m.
> Sunday...just a hair under 12 hours late. Given
> the time required by the Oakland yard crews to
> service the equipment, #6 won't be leaving
> Emeryville today until at least 11:30 a.m., more
> than two hours late.


It's the new Starlight!

I worked this train for many years.... Please tell me the year it did run on time or close to on time regularly.

I'd like to know that too! 5 and 6 have never had a good OTP!

Beg to differ with you ProAmtrak.

I was on the Zepher two years ago. Chicago to Emeryville - 20 min. early.

Maybe I just know how to hit them at the right time but except for the Sunset and Starlight (last year 10 hours) I have never been more than two hours late. And that's with over 20,000+ miles of rail travel since 1995.

These 20,000 miles include round trips from Orlando to LA (twice) and Chicago to LA(twice) plus trips from Chicago to Emeryville, Chicago to Seattle(twice), Seattle to LA (twice) and Orlando-Washington DC-Chicago-LA-Orlando.

Last year on my Orlando-Washingon DC-Chicago-LA-Orlando trip we were two hours late into Washington because of a passenger medical emergency between Miami and Orlando. Had it not been for that I think we would have been on time for that one to.

In two weeks I'm off on a trip from Tampa-Washington DC-Boston-New York and back to Tampa on the Meteor and Acela. I'll post a review on times when I return.

Tim you should have contacted Ripley's(Believe it or not)if you arrived 20 seconds early let alone 20 minutes. Slow orders throughout Utah due to track conditions are a guaranteed delay.

Twenty minutes early into Emeryville? Not these days. Reno Amtrak agents say the train coinsistently loses 2-3 hours due to slow orders daily between Elko and Winnemuca. Saturday's westbound train delays (10 hours late at Reno, 12 hours late into Emeryville) were an extreme case, but delays of two, three, four and even five hours are commonplace.

TimB94 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Beg to differ with you ProAmtrak.
>
> I was on the Zepher two years ago. Chicago to
> Emeryville - 20 min. early.
>
> Maybe I just know how to hit them at the right
> time but except for the Sunset and Starlight (last
> year 10 hours) I have never been more than two
> hours late. And that's with over 20,000+ miles of
> rail travel since 1995.
>
> These 20,000 miles include round trips from
> Orlando to LA (twice) and Chicago to LA(twice)
> plus trips from Chicago to Emeryville, Chicago to
> Seattle(twice), Seattle to LA (twice) and
> Orlando-Washington DC-Chicago-LA-Orlando.
>
> Last year on my Orlando-Washingon
> DC-Chicago-LA-Orlando trip we were two hours late
> into Washington because of a passenger medical
> emergency between Miami and Orlando. Had it not
> been for that I think we would have been on time
> for that one to.
>
> In two weeks I'm off on a trip from
> Tampa-Washington DC-Boston-New York and back to
> Tampa on the Meteor and Acela. I'll post a review
> on times when I return.

The performance wasn't too bad in 2005. Here's some data I collected in preparation for a trip that year. I was looking at several options so I tracked several trains. Over a two month period it was averaging about an hour late. There were exceptions due to derailments or grade crossing accidents that kicked that average up to about 90 minutes. I showed Naperville as the destination because we had a free place to park for the week.

We rode the Zephyr the first week of June and we were on time most of the time until we got to Ottumwa. Some storms had gone through during the night and they had some signal problems that delayed us. We arrived at Naperville about an hour late.

Sixty to ninety minutes isn't too bad anything you travel on public transportation these days. Airlines delay due to storms, buses due to traffic problems or construction delays. On the other hand, 6 or 8 hours or more is more than "a little late."

---

What makes a train 12 hours late? There were many contributing factors to this particular train.

It was almost 2 and a half hours behind into Salt Lake City, then followed several slow freights from Winnimucca to Sparks, and then the fun began. The SLC crew couldn't make it to Winnimucca before expiring, so the Reno crew had to dogcatch it. At Sparks a deadhead coach needed to be picked-up to be taken back to Oakland. It had been set-out from #6 a few days earlier due to bad flat wheels (and evidently left Oakland that way). Its wheels were changed at Sparks, and UP wanted it out of the yard. Picking up the coach turned into a 2 and a half hour process when there were HEP problems, and then when the deadhead coach broke away shortly after trying to depart Sparks. (Both of those problems were likely suspect of a hopeless conductor, but it's not my place to speculate about that here.)

The Oakland crew had been on duty since 214 p.m. because the Sparks problems were not anticipated when putting them on duty. After finally departing Reno around 730, they had a decent trip over the mountain. By this time, it was evident that the Oakland crew would not be able to make it within their 12 hours at 214 a.m. In keeping with consistent Joe Deeley Pacific Division practice of running a bare minimum T&E labor pool so more managers can be afforded, there were no extra engineers or conductors available from either Sacramento or Oakland, so the powers that were decided to have the Oakland yard crew patch the train at Davis.

Arrived at Roseville a bit before midnight, and when midnight rolled in, the paperwork on the locomotives expired. The last 24-hour calendar day inspection hadn't been since Denver (used to take place at SLC, but no more), so the engineers had to go through the checklist on both engines. Total time down for that was about an hour.

After departing Roseville around 1 a.m., the crew called to check on the patch crew, and discovered that between the crew dispatcher, CNOC (Oakland Operations shuts-down at night), and local management, nobody informed the yard crew or made arrangements to take them to Davis. Oakland crew brought the train to Davis with about 10 minutes to spare, were it sat for about an hour while a trainmaster drove the yard crew to Davis. Yard crew took the train to Emeryville with the 430 a.m. arrival.

Normally the yard crew would have been good on hours of service until 6 a.m., but with consistent Joe Deeley Pacific Division practice of running a bare minimum T&E labor pool so more managers can be afforded, the Oakland yard crew had been deadheaded from Sacramento, so they were only good until 5 a.m. Notwithstanding, they tried to get the train back to the yard and encountered a red signal at 10th St, and died halfway there. The train then sat on the mainline until 630 a.m., which was when the new yard crew went on duty and another trainmaster could drive them out.

Arrival at the Oakland yard was 7 a.m. #6 will have a great trip and wonderful OBS crew all the way to Chicago.

SPC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What makes a train 12 hours late? There were many
> contributing factors to this particular train.
>
> It was almost 2 and a half hours behind into Salt
> Lake City, then followed several slow freights
> from Winnimucca to Sparks, and then the fun began.
> The SLC crew couldn't make it to Winnimucca before
> expiring, so the Reno crew had to dogcatch it. At
> Sparks a deadhead coach needed to be picked-up to
> be taken back to Oakland. It had been set-out from
> #6 a few days earlier due to bad flat wheels (and
> evidently left Oakland that way). Its wheels were
> changed at Sparks, and UP wanted it out of the
> yard. Picking up the coach turned into a 2 and a
> half hour process when there were HEP problems,
> and then when the deadhead coach broke away
> shortly after trying to depart Sparks. (Both of
> those problems were likely suspect of a hopeless
> conductor, but it's not my place to speculate
> about that here.)
>
> The Oakland crew had been on duty since 214 p.m.
> because the Sparks problems were not anticipated
> when putting them on duty. After finally departing
> Reno around 730, they had a decent trip over the
> mountain. By this time, it was evident that the
> Oakland crew would not be able to make it within
> their 12 hours at 214 a.m. In keeping with
> consistent Joe Deeley Pacific Division practice of
> running a bare minimum T&E labor pool so more
> managers can be afforded, there were no extra
> engineers or conductors available from either
> Sacramento or Oakland, so the powers that were
> decided to have the Oakland yard crew patch the
> train at Davis.
>
> Arrived at Roseville a bit before midnight, and
> when midnight rolled in, the paperwork on the
> locomotives expired. The last 24-hour calendar day
> inspection hadn't been since Denver (used to take
> place at SLC, but no more), so the engineers had
> to go through the checklist on both engines. Total
> time down for that was about an hour.
>
> After departing Roseville around 1 a.m., the crew
> called to check on the patch crew, and discovered
> that between the crew dispatcher, CNOC (Oakland
> Operations shuts-down at night), and local
> management, nobody informed the yard crew or made
> arrangements to take them to Davis. Oakland crew
> brought the train to Davis with about 10 minutes
> to spare, were it sat for about an hour while a
> trainmaster drove the yard crew to Davis. Yard
> crew took the train to Emeryville with the 430
> a.m. arrival.
>
> Normally the yard crew would have been good on
> hours of service until 6 a.m., but with consistent
> Joe Deeley Pacific Division practice of running a
> bare minimum T&E labor pool so more managers can
> be afforded, the Oakland yard crew had been
> deadheaded from Sacramento, so they were only good
> until 5 a.m. Notwithstanding, they tried to get
> the train back to the yard and encountered a red
> signal at 10th St, and died halfway there. The
> train then sat on the mainline until 630 a.m.,
> which was when the new yard crew went on duty and
> another trainmaster could drive them out.
>
> Arrival at the Oakland yard was 7 a.m. #6 will
> have a great trip and wonderful OBS crew all the
> way to Chicago.

LMAO!

I'm amazed anyone would want to ride this train, unless they'd lost a bet.

WOW! and I dont have Windows Vista;)

I often ride the Silveor Meteor connecting to the Capital or Cardinal and then the CZ. My last 3 trips on the CZ (none within the last 6 months) arrived early in Denver by as much as 45 minutes (This was memorbale because the car rental agency was not yet open and I had to wait to pick up my rental car, Enterprise usually meets me at the station) My experience with the CZ is pretty good. Can not say the same for the Florida trains or the Capital. Cardinal was also early into Chicago on my last trip. Passenger trains on lower density freight lines are generally a safer bet than trains on higher density freight lines (seems logical).

SPC never reveal your identity or heir deely will find some/any minor rules violation you broke and your amtrak career will be over. the man has unlimited power in and out of courts.

Here's the thing I'm lookin' at is once UP gets that trackage squared away, will they actually keep it up? I ain't holdin' my breath on that one!

It's the new Starlight!


You mean the Starlate?

KK