Passenger Trains > Christmas Oceans

Here's the consist for VIA #15, the w/b Ocean at Truro NS this afternoon, Dec 22/07

6427 F40
6434 F40
8618 Baggage
8132 Coach
8138 Coach
8108 Coach
8141 Coach
Skyline 8509
Diner Acadian
Chateau Montcalm
Chateau Maisonneuve
Chateau Papineau
Chateau Latour
Chateau Radisson
Chateau Richelieu
Chateau Marquette
Chateau Lauzon
Chateau Rouville

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As a comparison, here’s the consists for the Oceans at Truro NS on December 23, 1983 when eastbound #14 operated with a Second Section from Montreal to Halifax.

VIA #14 Ocean (First Section) Montreal-Halifax
9409 GP40
9411 GP40
15480 Steam Generator Unit
15458 Steam Generator Unit
15485 Steam Generator Unit
9616 Baggage
5468 Coach
3035 Coach Cafe
5716 Dayniter
5720 Dayniter
1341 Diner
Resplendent 3 Bdr Lounge
Eldorado Sleeper
Endeavor Sleeper

VIA #15 Ocean Halifax-Montreal
9437 GP40
9433 GP40
15459 Steam Generator Unit
15469 Steam Generator Unit
15423 Steam Generator Unit
9671 Baggage
5736 Dayniter
5703 Dayniter
5490 Coach
3222 Snack Coach
Skyline 507 Dome
5519 Coach
Champlain Diner
Greenway Sleeper
Edgerton Sleeper
Tramblant Park Dome Observation

VIA #14 Ocean (Second Section) Montreal-Halifax
9430 GP40
3102 RS18
9408 GP40
15466 Steam Generator Unit
15424 Steam Generator Unit
9668 Baggage
5721 Dayniter
5713 Dayniter
5518 Coach
3217 Snack-Bar Coach
Skyline 512 Dome
5581 Coach
Alexandria Diner
Greenshields Sleeper
Chateau Vercheres Sleeper
Tweedsmuir Park Dome Oberservation

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Wow - 9 Budd Chateau sleepers on the Ocean - that can't even comapre to an long distance train that Amtrak operates with sleepers, not even the Auto Train!

It's still too bad that VIA couldn't operate a Park Car on the rear of the Ocean or even a second Skyline car. I realize such may dilute the "marketing effect" of the Park Car when it operates during peal season with the Easterly class service, but it'd be a nice consolation at this time of the year when Renaissance equipment is out for servicing.

Regarding VIA, at least 3 of VIA's F40PHs are already inside the plant and grounds at Canadian Allied Diesel (CAD) in Lachine, near Trudeau Airport/Montreal, for the 5-year overhaul program announced recently.

jp1822 Wrote:
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> Wow - 9 Budd Chateau sleepers on the Ocean - that
> can't even comapre to an long distance train that
> Amtrak operates with sleepers, not even the Auto
> Train!

The whole thing adds up to a fairly short Superliner consist. Figure one Superliner for every two Via cars.
The Ocean pictured is a handsome train, nothing can take away from that but at the end of the day it's still a collection of 50+ year old equipment hanging on because the resources aren't to make replacements available.

Why do I love the old blue and yellow VIA colors??


TIOGA PASS

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This is not equivalent to a small Superliner consist. Each Chateau series car has approximately 23 revenue spaces that can be sold (indvidulized basis), compared to approximately 44 revenue spaces that can be sold in a Superliner. The Chateau consist above can therefore hold over 200 passengers, where as even if you have three regular Superliner Sleepers (considering four in family bedroom) you would only accommdate roughly 130 revenue passengers. Reducing Amtrak further is that one attendant is assigned per car, whereas VIA frees up a roomette and assigns up to three sleepers to one attendant. Auto Train may beat this out, but the all-Deluxe bedrooms knock the number down a little.

Let's also recall that the only reason why this ex-CP stainless steel Budd car is on the Ocean is that it is subbing for Renaissance long distance cars in for maintenance. Typically the Ocean is an all Renaissance long distance train set, with its cars of 6 deluxe double bedrooms (i.e. shower) and 4 regular double bedrooms (i.e. no shower). These single level sleepers are similar more to a Viewliner single level bedroom - no center corridor (corridor is along the windows etc.). So instead of 12 roomettes, 2 bedrooms and one handicap room like a Viewliner, these cars just have 10 bedrooms. Still small - but not as small as a Viewliner roomette. But again, there's an advantage to the VIA sleepers in that one attendant can handle more than just one sleeper, unlike Amtrak sleeping car attendants.

72368 Wrote:
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> Why do I love the old blue and yellow VIA
> colors??
>
>
> TIOGA PASS

Thanks for posting.

Is “Tioga Pass” xCN “Bedford” or “Burrard” ?

See my post from last Saturday over at the Nostalgia & History Forum. Both "Bedford" and "Burrard" were in service when VIA’s Atlantic was running with a Second Section across Maine during Christmas 1980.

http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,1561401

bisbeekid Wrote:
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>
> The whole thing adds up to a fairly short
> Superliner consist. Figure one Superliner for
> every two Via cars.
> The Ocean pictured is a handsome train, nothing
> can take away from that but at the end of the day
> it's still a collection of 50+ year old equipment
> hanging on because the resources aren't to make
> replacements available.


Just a few days ago I returned from a trip on the Canadian. My 53-year-old Manor-series sleeper was in terrific shape. The sleeper had new carpeting throughout (as did all sleepers and the diner and Park car;) the colour-schemes were soothing; the electrical systems worked just fine; the hot water from the taps was very hot indeed and the recently-installed retention toilet worked well. Some passengers didn't believe the cars were over 50 years old. I occupied a roomette - officially called a "single bedroom" - which of course is very small but well-equipped.

I prefer the Renaissance sleepers in some ways, one of which is the fact that a person wanting his or her own room can get the double room at a modest 15% surcharge over the per person fare for two in a room. Single use of a double room in a Budd sleeper costs 50% extra. But the Budd sleepers offer the full range of accommodations, including upper and lower berths, bedrooms en suite and at least one drawing room. On my trip there were two couples who had a "Romance by Rails" suite in which VIA has ingeniously created a queen-sized bed.

Nice to hear good news about these stainless steel Budd cars that VIA kept in service and pain stakingly restored - within reason and budget though - while Amtrak just "gave up" and decided to buy new equipment, that was (1) not sufficient in number and (2) often not as reliable as the rebuilt Budd cars VIA operates. If Amtrak couldn't have restored the Heritage fleet - be it sleepers, diners, Dorms, baggage cars, I don't know why they didn't partner with VIA to try and get the fleet in good working order. Course VIA never did get the "Northern Spirit Cars" up and running, but that's largely due to the extreme cold weather these cars would endure on their trip to Churchill. They may work out for VIA's corridor service back East as an overnight train - if only seasonally. VIA still operates a variety of equipment for the small network it has. And it still has enough cars to either operate new or more service. I think they are positioned quite well. As much as a lot of people balked at the Renaissance car purchase, this saved VIA in the long run. Now they have a great deal of flexibility. It's just too bad we can't see some other former routes restored to service (namely out West). We'll see if Rocky Mountaineer stays with its British Columbia Passenger rail route from Prince George to North Vancouver when the contract runs out, or they try to sign this over to VIA. VIA could handle it, and bid on the service originally! Now that I strayed way off topic, I'll end!

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This is not equivalent to a small Superliner
> consist. Each Chateau series car has approximately
> 23 revenue spaces that can be sold (indvidulized
> basis), compared to approximately 44 revenue
> spaces that can be sold in a Superliner. The
> Chateau consist above can therefore hold over 200
> passengers, where as even if you have three
> regular Superliner Sleepers (considering four in
> family bedroom) you would only accommdate roughly
> 130 revenue passengers. Reducing Amtrak further is
> that one attendant is assigned per car, whereas
> VIA frees up a roomette and assigns up to three
> sleepers to one attendant. Auto Train may beat
> this out, but the all-Deluxe bedrooms knock the
> number down a little.


Thanks for the information.
The Ocean as well as the rest of Via's trains are quite handsome.
Trying to compare Amtrak and Via is pointless. The two companies are very different as are their missions. I find much to admire about Canada. My one brief visit to the country left me with a very good impression of our neighbor to the north.
So I'm really sorry that these discussions of Via (often with my help) end up in a really stupid "my sides better" thread.
Via is a fine railway and overall accomplishes more with less than Amtrak. But then that just reflects the differences in the two countries. None of which reflects favorably on the US as it stands now.....