Passenger Trains > An Outrageous Proposal

I think Amtrak ought to purchase the fleet of the American European Express (AOE - GrandLux) equipment that is now for sale, since they went into bankruptcy. If they bought the whole lot of equipment, about 25 - 30 cars, they would have something large enough to work with in equipping a train.

Then, any dome cars could be shipped to LAX for use in SoCal or NoCal, just as they presently shift around the Great Dome car seasonally.

Then they should re-equip the Lake Shore Ltd:
-First off, they could keep one of the Viewliner sleepers(perhaps three cars are needed for the cycle, and then one spare), but put all the rest of them back into Amtrak's pool for use elsewhere in the country. The one Viewliner slpr could offer economy sleeping accomodations.
-Then add three of the AEE bedroom cars per day to the train. Again 3 x 3 = 9 plus 3 spares, should offer some really nice rooms to sell.
-Then add the two AEE diners to the Lake Shore pool. Unfortunately, with only two cars, they will likely need a 3rd regular Amtrak FULL diner to complete the cycle. (No Amtrak Lite allowed.......)
- Then add the two low level AEE lounges to the Lake Shore pool. Again, a full regular Amfleet lounge would be needed to complete the cycle.
- Finally use the AEE crew cars for Amtrak crew cars in the Lake Shore Pool.
- The Lake Shore Amfleet long distance coaches would be the same as present.

The result would be a Lake Shore Ltd. worthy in the sense of equipment. Nice dining; nice wide choice of sleeping accomodations; keep the equipment on one train, and not spread across the system. Keep the maintenance in Chicago exclusively. Better lounge cars.

The price of the AEE equipment cannot be too high, $150,000 per car?
It is available now, and most of it is ready to roll.

Obviously, some more dining staff would be needed (three cooks, four waiters and a steward) and sleeping car attendants (one more?), but the positive public relations that Amtrak would gain from such a move is immeasureable.

I would think that the employees in the Chicago crew base would respond very positively to a nice train, and want to work on such a train. Perhaps special training and a unique uniform would be small investments to set the Lake Shore Ltd. aside as a very nice way to travel between Chicago and New York.

Well, I am not holding my breath on Mr. Boardman to have the vision to do this proposal, but I do think it is wise and doable.

You're right...that is outrageous!!!

I do not want to make this an hour long writing exercise, but a few thoughts as to why this idea is very impractical.

Private cars are built and regulated to different standards than commuter and intercity railcars. The biggest differences are in interior fittings and the requirements for daily interior inspections on Amtrak/commuter cars ("Code of Federal Regulations [CFR] Part 238" equipment). Private cars are not subject to interior daily inspections (49 CFR 238.305), and they are not required to meet the fire safety standards (49 CFR 238.103) It is quite probable that the wood interior fittings, carpeting, and upholsteries do not meet these strict standards.

Amtrak's crafts are now extensively trained on maintenance of the standard air conditioners, electrical control panels, toilet systems, etc., etc. of its present standard Superliners, Amfleets, Horizons, and Viewliners. There is a lot of commonality in storehouse parts; such as window glazing, HVAC units, wheelsets, seat parts, and whatnot. There is a standard set of electrical drawings for all Amtrak equipment. The Grand Luxe equipment, despite a few cars having reasonably identical accommodations, is truly no two cars are alike; and would be a nightmare to maintain past the first month in the Amtrak environment.

Typically, the Grand Luxe would operate a tour, and then would have off for a period of time to restock, repair, and get ready for the next tour. Amtrak equipment is away from the home base for three straight non-stop days, gets a turn-around cleaning and restocking, and heads back to its home maintenance base, and continues this cycle for 120 days. There is very little private varnish that will stand this intense operating environment; most cars of this type that I am familiar with operates with a 24/7 mechanic (sometimes dressed as a porter) aboard to keep the car running. I suspect the Grand Luxe equipment is at the upper end of the PV food chain in this regard, but I doubt if it constructed with hotel systems as robust as a typical Superliner car.

TL

traindancer169 Wrote:
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> You're right...that is outrageous!!!

No, you're wrong, and the OP is right, this is a no brainer, and Amtrak should absolutely purchase this equipment. If they don't VIA Rail will. Can't Amtrak learn from our northern neighbours? VIA bought the Euro sets and saved a crapload of dough, and those sets are in revenue service. Amtrak can buy this equipment, and free up Superliners to either add on to existing trains to increase capacity, or use for an entire new train.

Boardman should write the check out now.

Weren't the AOE cars sold recently? I know they were up for sale in Napa, but then there were some rumors that a mystery buyer made the purchase.

smitty195 Wrote:
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> Weren't the AOE cars sold recently? I know they
> were up for sale in Napa, but then there were some
> rumors that a mystery buyer made the purchase.

Rumor has been pretty consistent that they have been sold.
C.

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA

I think more attention has to be paid to what Torchlake wrote. This is plain common sense.

Also, $150,000 per car? Probably several times that.

1. The cars are lovely
2. They are not set up for Amtrak level of abuse
3. Wood appointments and nice carpet won't work - too different
4. Odd mechanicals will make them orphans the day they show up.
5. Better a high end cruise train outfit takes them and lays them up under cover to await better economic times.
6. I want the obs car for a PV
7. Despite what has been said, Tom Rader always seemed like a stand-up guy when I dealt with him.

John Gezelius
Tustin, CA

Amtrak needs new equipment, not olde time cars.

I read that this would qualify as stimulus spending, in a Blue State anyways.

Maybe the secret buyer was Todd Clark, and he is covertly arranging a really cool luxurious railfan trip. :-)

Get real people.

smitty195 Wrote:
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> Maybe the secret buyer was Todd Clark, and he is
> covertly arranging a really cool luxurious railfan
> trip. :-)


I was a few month too late in getting that 10 million dollar loan with no money down. Too many people buying homes beat me to the money.

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

As nice as a trip with AOE equipment would be, I'd be happy with a ride in the SF Muni "Boat"!

As nice a train as that might make, it unfortunately would not fit at all in today's Amtrak. Kurt.

I got a couple million bucks of stimulous money, and I'm going to buy the Grand Luxe train.
I'll use it to haul political pork, since there will a lot of that traveling around now!!

Norm

MEKoch, You're right, it is an outrageous proposal.

1) Those cars are tired and need hundreds of thousands of $$$ of work. Anyone who read the sales offer would know that.
2) They have interiors that are impractical for heavy duty use, such as they would be put to in Amtrak service. The wood would be destroyed in a week or less.
3) They have severely limited passenger capacity.
3a) Amtrak tried this before, with the Keystone Classic Club, or some such, and it was a bust.
4) The cars were sold and now belong to Xanterra, the owner of the Grand Canyon Railway.

So, give it a rest, folks. Ain't gonna happen, and probably shouldn't, anyway. There's no market for it. Lord knows both AOE and GL tried, and had ad budgets boggle the mind.

Wasn't GL running their cars at the back of some/most/every Silver Meteor & Southwest Chief for awhile ( http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Copy/News_Release_Page&c=am2Copy&cid=1178293998501&ssid=180 )?

If so, how did the GL cars handle the daily (?) runs?

Someone on the Altamont Press Board posted that Anschutz bought the Grand Luxe cars and intends to base them in Williams AZ.
C.

Carol Voss
Bakersfield, CA