Passenger Trains > California Zephyr??

I just saw the great pic of DRGW leading #6 down the Front Range and I counted the cards and it occurred to me; isn't this a bit short for a Summer time long distance train?

http://www.trainorders.com/images2/view.php?377683

Three coaches? This is a 2,000+ mile trip. I would think the Zephyr could run with 5 in the Summer.

Is it me or does anyone agree? Is this due to equipment shortages? And do they still have the Denver coach which is added and taken off for travel west of Denver?

Run8 Wrote:
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> I just saw the great pic of DRGW leading #6 down
> the Front Range and I counted the cards and it
> occurred to me; isn't this a bit short for a
> Summer time long distance train?
>
> http://www.trainorders.com/images2/view.php?377683
>
>
> Three coaches? This is a 2,000+ mile trip. I
> would think the Zephyr could run with 5 in the
> Summer.
>
> Is it me or does anyone agree? Is this due to
> equipment shortages? And do they still have the
> Denver coach which is added and taken off for
> travel west of Denver?

For years, we ran extra coaches and also a Chi-Denver sleeper which isn't running this summer. Passenger loads are good, but not great considering how popular this train was years ago--esp. when it had PDX and LA sections, the good old days.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/09 18:39 by IC_2024.

It seems Amtrak does not want to be bothered with adding cars when trains sell out. I do not consider it a lack of ridership at all. 48/448, 49/449, 29 & 30, 50/51 east of Cincinnati, and especially 19 & 20 north of Atlanta were/are sold out days and weeks in advance all Summer, and have strong pre-bookings into Fall. Wanted to book a Toledo-Chicago day trip to Chicago for my off day yesterday, and both the Capitol and Lake Shore were both shown as sold out in both directions, this on a Tuesday when school is starting back. More people would ride, but Amtrak does not want the business.

We are lucky enough the Starlights are running with four coaches. I beleive in winter they take two off?

SF3751 Wrote:
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> We are lucky enough the Starlights are running
> with four coaches. I beleive in winter they take
> two off?
In the "off" season the Starlight usually has the "32" sleeper and the "14" coach removed.

Before we start ripping on Amtrak about the CZ, lets consider how UP has torpedoed this train for ANOTHER summer by requiring reroutes through Wyoming on, oh about half the days during the summer season. No one besides railfans interested in normally freight only mileage are interested in a train trip through Wyoming. CZ passengers are interested in seeing the Colorado mountain scenery, and when they find out the train will be going through Wyoming, they won't book the CZ. Not surprised they only need three coaches. While it is good to see UP doing major upgrades on the Moffat Line, by insisting on the Wyoming reroute, they are putting the screws to Amtrak.

Daze: When do you want UP to do the work? Winter?

StarlightHog Wrote:
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> SF3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > We are lucky enough the Starlights are running
> > with four coaches. I beleive in winter they
> take
> > two off?
> In the "off" season the Starlight usually has the
> "32" sleeper and the "14" coach removed.


There had been a few Coast Starlight Sets running with
a fifth coach lately.

Did they take that fifth car off already?

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival

GP25 Wrote:
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> StarlightHog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SF3751 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > We are lucky enough the Starlights are
> running
> > > with four coaches. I beleive in winter they
> > take
> > > two off?
> > In the "off" season the Starlight usually has
> the
> > "32" sleeper and the "14" coach removed.
>
>
> There had been a few Coast Starlight Sets running
> with
> a fifth coach lately.
>
> Did they take that fifth car off already?


From what I saw last Saturday in person, and posts/updates/photo's from others, yes. I believe they took the 5th one off.

ATSF429 Wrote:
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> Daze: When do you want UP to do the work?
> Winter?

I said it was good that they are doing the work. But any time UP imposes the Wyoming detour on the CZ, it hurts bookings because folks want to ride through Colorado. If the CZ has only three coaches (the subject of the thread) it's not Amtrak refusing to add cars due to demand as some posters have suggested, it's demand dropping because of the reroute. Three coaches are probably sufficient.

It amazes me that Amtrak was not tried to "relaunch" this train considering it was essentially the train you put foreign visitors or ambassadors of other countries on to "see America" up close - if you will. Canadian Pacific's "Canadian" train borrowed heavily from from the original CA Zephyr (featuring the dome cars etc.) and then the "Canadian" was seen as the "train to take" for your first time visit to see Canada up close. Of course CN's Super Continetal was then launched to compete with it - but sort of never stood up to the superb service and routing of the Canadian - in my opinion.

I just think Amtrak's California Zephyr has a ton of untapped potential. And considering right now that passenger loads have been pretty good on the long distance network - it may be worth a try to give this train some much needed attention. At one time in the early part of the 21st century (after the Desert Wind and Pioneer had come off) this train was often given a third sleeper line all the way between Chicago and Emeryville during peak season. There's phenomenal scenery along this route - crossing two mountain ranges etc.

After all - this is the only train that the GrandLuxe sort of pursued and went after and partially was successful at - by taking on some of its own cars to the rear of the train. But lets not get into that debacle. Course the train experience is sort of diminished if it doesn't go on the Moffat Tunnel route.

Too bad as I think there could be a lot more potential with this train.

The California Zephyr could be a great train again. Unfortunately, Amtrak doesn't seem to put a lot of effort into the route and the staff on board seems to do whatever they want a lot of the time, especially in the dining car. http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,1956258,1956559#msg-1956559

My thoughts from 2 months ago were reconfirmed 2 weeks ago when I once again had a horrible dining experience on the Zephyr.

Jarrod DellaChiesa
Oakley, CA

jdellachiesa Wrote:
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> The California Zephyr could be a great train
> again. Unfortunately, Amtrak doesn't seem to put
> a lot of effort into the route and the staff on
> board seems to do whatever they want a lot of the
> time, especially in the dining car.
> http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,1
> 956258,1956559#msg-1956559
>
> My thoughts from 2 months ago were reconfirmed 2
> weeks ago when I once again had a horrible dining
> experience on the Zephyr.

Interesting. I rode the California Zephyr in late April/early May and I had a very pleasant trip. The sleeping car attendant was coming down with a cold and this would be his last trip before having his "time off in Chicago." And he had to take care of the revenue space in the Superliner Trans/Dorm sleeper as well. One would expect him to be a "little cranky" but he was pretty much "on his toes" the whole trip - even vacuuming the hallway and vacant roomettes throughout the day. The dining crew was friendly throughout the trip - more so as we were scheduled to arrive into Chicago a little early. The attendant in the cafe was very friendly, pointed out some interesting points along the route including potential places to explore at various "extended stops" (and no it was not the CA State Museum people), and said there was an Amtrak special offering a "free drink with lunch" due to our expected early arrival into Chicago. We did arrive 20 minutes into Chicago. So my experience on the California Zephyr was surprisingly good, as I was prepared for the worst. I had some bad experiences on this train when I last took it in 2005. So this year, 2009, was my first time back on this train. Sort of restored my faith in it. I would even go as far as saying the staff on the California Zephyr was equal or more friendly than that of the Coast Starlight. I booked a roomette on the Starlight from LA to the Bay area to have my private space to get some work done, free meals, and access to the Parlor Car (which we actually did have)! All said and one, it was probably pretty equal in price to book the roomette versus going coach and paying for meals etc.).

At one point, I had read that Gunn had planned on "re-launching" the California Zephyr after the Empire Builder was "re-launched." But the Coast Starlight was eventually chosen. Timekeeping on the Coast Starlight got better, the Parlor cars were supposedly overhauled and put back into service under a good state of repair (which of course remains debatable), and they already had a model to follow for "re-launching" the Coast Starlight. It's overhaul by Rosenwald in the late 1990s was great and then slowly deteriorated until the Starlight's current re-launch.

Now the California Zephyr has also improved (overall) in on-time performance and it likely could have some unique amenities added to coach and sleeper class to make the trip more enjoyable. Amtrak would just have to think outside the box a little bit to achieve such, or perhaps go back to look at how the original CA Zephyr was run to gain some ideas. It's just too bad there's not enough sleeper cars to run a third sleeper line and Parlor Car (reconfigured Superliner Diner-Lounge instead?) - if properly promoted and re-launched!

The UP route through Wyoming must be somewhat OK. After all, UP ran its fleet of Domeliners over this line.

I recently rode #6 between Salt Lake City and Denver. The scenery was decent (albeit not spectacular like Colorado) in the eastern half of the route. There were plenty of empty seats in the coach to which I was assigned.

The dining car staff was very nice, but breakfast was mediocre.

For dinner I enjoyed trout (once a CZ specialty) in the Wyncoop brewpub across the street from Denver's Union Station.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/17 21:23 by RuleG.

I've ridden the CZ between Colorado and California at least 20 times in the past 5 years -- in all seasons -- and I've never seen the three coaches (and a few times only two coaches) sold out. But all of the sleepers are very often sold out. So, in my opinion, the CZ could use more sleepers before adding more coaches.

What Western Amtrak Train doesn't need more sleepers and
Coaches.


chakk Wrote:
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> I've ridden the CZ between Colorado and California
> at least 20 times in the past 5 years -- in all
> seasons -- and I've never seen the three coaches
> (and a few times only two coaches) sold out. But
> all of the sleepers are very often sold out. So,
> in my opinion, the CZ could use more sleepers
> before adding more coaches.

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival

GP25 Wrote:
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> What Western Amtrak Train doesn't need more
> sleepers and
> Coaches.


And better service and better food!

sfericsf Wrote:
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> GP25 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What Western Amtrak Train doesn't need more
> > sleepers and
> > Coaches.
>
>
> And better service and better food!


That is the understatement of the day

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival

Again, this is another example where I think the CA Zephyr would have a shot at mirroring VIA's Canadian or even Amtrak's own Auto Train service. Both operate with more than just the two regular sleepers and a Superliner Trans/Dorm sleeper. The CA Zephyr could certainly use extra sleepers (like all other long distance trains - as noted), but I think this is one train, if re-launched could certainly benefit from a third sleeper line nearly year-round. Even in winter, this train could be marketable for its spectacular scenery. The offseason of the Auto Train still has more sleepers than any other long distance Amtrak train.

Also, Amtrak only sells 4 revenue sleepers in the Superliner Trans/Dorm. It could sell another two rooms - utilizing roomettes 17 through 22. How much incremental pay does that adjacent sleeping car attendant get? Just two more rooms! But it would certainly be much needed extra high-end revenue for Amtrak. I'm sure everyone has had to take on more work for the same amount of pay - if not less pay at one time or another in their career.

Asking railroad employees to take on more work for equal or less pay? Them's strikin' words.
Just take a look at the current BART situation.