Passenger Trains > CN seeks to abandon Niagara Falls Bridge

Yet another "there's no free ride" for Amtrak as sole user...

Railway seeks to abandon Niagara Falls bridge
Albany Times Union
Tuesday, February 28, 2012

> Amtrak and VIA, Canada's passenger rail service, are discussing with
> the Niagara Falls Bridge Commission and Canadian National Railway how
> to continue service across a Niagara Falls bridge after CN, which
> owns the bridge, filed a notice with Canadian regulators to abandon
> it.
>
> Patrick Waldron, a CN spokesman, said the freight railroad no longer
> uses the bridge. The cost of repairs and maintenance to the bridge is
> among the topics being discussed. Amtrak's daily Maple Leaf service,
> connecting New York and the Capital Region to Toronto, uses the
> bridge, and Amtrak spokesman Cliff Cole said that an alternate route
> "would be very circuitous and impractical."

<http://www.timesunion.com/business/article/Railway-seeks-to-abandon-Niagara-Falls-bridge-3368256.php#ixzz1noGoBaNL&gt;



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/12 13:49 by GenePoon.

For the 30-50 daily passengers who actually cross the border, might it be easier to just have it originate in Niagara Falls, NY (or even better, Cleveland!)? Better OTP because the power tripping border agents cannot delay the train indefinitely anymore. Looking at manifest for this train, almost nobody crosses the border, yet the counts are often over 300 passengers east of Buffalo/Rochester/Syracuse.

If the train continues to operate to Toronto, run it as a sealed train north of the border and shave an hour off the schedule, do customs in Toronto similar to the Cascade trains.

Interesting story about that bridge:

One fall in the mid/late-1970s, I flew to Buffalo and crossed to Niagara Falls ON on the way to Toronto. On the way,
I took in a steam excursion behind CN 6060, the "Bullet-Nose Betty" 4-8-2. The train arrived from Toronto at Niagara Falls;
some detrained, others stayed on and some (including me) boarded for a round trip excursion, an hour each way to Yager,
where the train was turned on a wye for its return trip. The train then laid over at the VIA Rail station in Niagara Falls
for a few hours until late afternoon, when it would return to Toronto.

Passage back to Toronto required only a regular VIA Rail ticket, which I purchased. I asked the VIA agent for, and obtained
permission to take a nap aboard the train (I had flown San Francisco-Chicago on an American Airlines red-eye flight
and connected via AA to Buffalo). I settled in a reclining coach seat for a snooze.

The excursion consist occupied the station track at Niagara Falls, and there was a scheduled VIA Rail train, operated
with Budd RDCs, that would arrive from Toronto and then depart Niagara Falls in the meantime (Non-railfans would ask,
why didn't I ride that, to arrive in Toronto sooner? They're excused from further participation). I was gently awakened
as the train reversed until its rear end...including the coach where I was sleeping...was across the bridge, in the
USA. This was necessary to clear the station track for the Budd cars.

I thought I was alone aboard the train, but that was not so. Someone entered the coach from the rear...a US Border
Patrol agent. He was friendly enough once he saw my police ID, and my ticket to Toronto and I told him I was
waiting for the train to depart. He said he was curious as to why a CN passenger train was on the USA side of the bridge,
and had boarded to investigate.

We didn't hear it, but there must have been a CHUFF from the CN 6060 on the head end...and the train began to move.
It first crept ahead, then gained speed until it was spotted at the VIA Rail station again...only now the US Border Patrol agent
was in Canada and his vehicle was back in the USA. He must not have fancied walking across the border (much less across
the bridge), because he said he'd have to call his office to send another officer to cross the border and pick him up.

"You're a cop," he said. "You know what they're like. You KNOW they'll never let me forget THIS!"



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/29/12 14:45 by GenePoon.

Looks like it is the southerly bridge that has no tracks on it - isn't that the CP bridge, not the CN?

Sorry, took the train from STL three years ago. If they can make the connection shorter in Buffalo they would help. CN is just trying to get back at AMTRAK for filing an American STB calm.

The bridge between Fort Erie and Buffalo is in service. CN and CP both use it.

CN does not need the Niagara bridge.

If there are only 50 or so passengers making the crossing they can just bus them across.

Not good. People don't care for bus rides much.


jfrank39 Wrote:
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> If there are only 50 or so passengers making the
> crossing they can just bus them across.

How long has it been since CN used the bridge for freight?

& is it one of these two bridges? http://www.flickr.com/photos/80651083@N00/216217213/

Ted in OR

Rail service across the CP bridge was discontinued almost 10 years ago when CP began using the Fort Erie bridge. It is the CN bridge, which Amtrak uses, that is now threatened. It hasn't been used for freight business in a long time.

On the Canadian side, the Maple Leaf serves as one of two daily VIA roundtrips between Niagara Falls and Toronto. If it were to be converted into a "sealed train" on the Canadian side of the border, VIA would have to replace the lost local service. And the only thing a "sealed train" would solve is the problem with en-route border delays; it wouldn't address the cost of maintaining the bridge.

Whether the bridge is worth keeping for the benefit of 50 daily passengers on each of two trains, I'm not in a position to evaluate, but if there were ever any consideration of having more frequent service between Toronto and the USA, a bus connection would be a big obstacle.

Understand that the CN bridge also has a roadway on the lower deck. So does this mean that CN wants to retire the track only? One presumes that the structure itself would remain in service.

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rail service across the CP bridge was discontinued
> almost 10 years ago when CP began using the Fort
> Erie bridge. It is the CN bridge, which Amtrak
> uses, that is now threatened. It hasn't been used
> for freight business in a long time.
>

The mainline on that CP bridge used to turn south once it crossed the river and ran behind the row of buildings that border the Canadian side of the falls. The track was ripped out in the early part of last decade. The right of way has been converted into a walking trail near the big buildings next to the falls, and the rest of the right-of-way is still there, its just underneath the Fallsview Casino! I remember staying at a hotel in 1991 on the Canadian side and we had a room with a nice view...OF THOSE TRACKS!!!! So of course, I was the only person in my family that was ultra-happy about that!

JGFuller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Understand that the CN bridge also has a roadway
> on the lower deck. So does this mean that CN
> wants to retire the track only? One presumes that
> the structure itself would remain in service.

Bridge is owned by the Niagara Falls Bridge Commission and yes there is a roadway on the lower deck. CN is applying to abandon the track only. Info here on the bridge.....scroll down to Whirlpool Bridge:

http://niagarafallsbridges.com/what_is_nfbc.php3

Here's a shot looking across the bridge into the US from the VIA Station:

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Amtrak288 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> The mainline on that CP bridge used to turn south
> once it crossed the river and ran behind the row
> of buildings that border the Canadian side of the
> falls.

The abandoned CP (New York Central) right of way through downtown Niagara Falls ON.

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Amtrak288 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> .............. The right of way has been
> converted into a walking trail near the big
> buildings next to the falls, and the rest of the
> right-of-way is still there, its just underneath
> the Fallsview Casino!

Here's the end of track near the Casino.....then the abandoned ROW passing under:

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Another possibility is to route the Amtrak Toronto train via CN's Ft Erie route which IIRC passes through the NW corner of Niagara Falls, Ontario. Upside would be picking up Welland and Ft Erie service; downside would be reducing Niagara Falls, NY train frequency from 3 pairs to 2 pairs.

I believe this was in the news about 5 years ago, too. I don't remember the details, but CN made a similar threat back then. As sole user, Amtrak is liable for the expense. I don't know what deal was cut back then, but there was something.

It's not retribution. It's just good business sense, not to take on an expense and liability for something that you don't use. And it's certainly not the first time a railroad has done this to Amtrak. Santa Fe's 2nd District through Pasadena. The CSX S Line through Raleigh, Hamlet and Columbia, downgraded from 79 mph to 60 mph because CSX doesn't need the higher track quality for its operation. It's happening right now with the BNSF line through Devils Lake, ND, and it's probably going to happen with BNSF's ex-Santa Fe passenger line across southern Kansas, through La Junta and down to Lamy and Albuquerque. It happened on Conrail on the Ft. Wayne Line. It happened on CSX between Wildwood and Auburndale, forcing the reroute through Lakeland. It's also why Amtrak owns its own line in Michigan, since Conrail didn't need it.

Sometimes Amtrak or a local agency comes up with the money to keep the line open, or they agree to a reduced speed, lowering the track standard from Class 4 to Class 3 (or, in the case of Buckingham Branch between Gordonsville and Orange, VA, from Class 3 to Class 2, from 60 mph to 30 mph), and sometimes Amtrak or the local agencies don't put up the money, and the line gets abandoned.

< Another possibility is to route the Amtrak Toronto train via CN's Ft Erie route which IIRC passes through the NW corner of Niagara Falls, Ontario. Upside would be picking up Welland and Ft Erie service; downside would be reducing Niagara Falls, NY train frequency from 3 pairs to 2 pairs.>

It would have to be an Amtrak operation all the way to Toronto, which is cost prohibitive because it could not be a VIA Rail service in Canada.

Sorry but STL is St. Louis, Missouri. Could not find what I'm guessing should be St. Lawrence on Amtrak's station finder.


shuttletrain Wrote
----------------------------------------------------
> Sorry, took the train from STL three years ago. If
> they can make the connection shorter in Buffalo
> they would help. CN is just trying to get back at
> AMTRAK for filing an American STB calm.