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Passenger Trains > Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ


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Date: 03/29/14 12:58
Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: HardYellow

Any word (or hope) of Federal Government rebuilding the old SP line west of Phoenix (Buckeye) to Welton? This would allow direct passenger service again to the city of Phoenix. I don’t think UPRR has any interest in the line, except for storage. Several years ago, 2011, I contacted Raul Grijalva, the areas US Congressman. He has no interest in the project. Grijalva’s main concern is keeping the International Border open and getting re-elected every two years.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/14 13:22 by HardYellow.



Date: 03/29/14 13:01
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: RD10747

As a taxpayer, why would the federal govt rebuild a private railroad??..
That would be with some of my money??...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/14 13:02 by Agt-Highland.



Date: 03/29/14 13:06
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: ep75

John McCain doesn't like Amtrak and it won't happen.



Date: 03/29/14 13:12
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: NewRiverGeorge

Not a priority like the taxpayers building an interstate highway between Phoenix and Las Vegas, Nevada.



Date: 03/29/14 13:15
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: HardYellow

Well, let me clarify my statement. Back in the 1980’s, when SP filed to abandoned the line, AMTRAK and only one SP freight were using the line, the 01-WCPXY or the O1-PXWCY. SP really didn’t want to maintain the track just for that. They ask the Government to help re-build the line. They said no, just abandon it and they would by-pass Phoenix and us the regular SP line from Welton over to Picacho. They ended up placing a mobile home at Maricopa as a new station and crew change point. So, that’s where the Gov-money would play in. I’m sure now the UPRR would throw in part of the restoration rebuilding money. In the future, this would allow a daily Phoenix to Los Angeles train.... that’s been talked about. I’m sure one mile of new interstate highway would cost more than up-grading the old rail line. The track is stlll there.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/14 13:19 by HardYellow.



Date: 03/29/14 13:58
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: tacobell

It would be nice if they could use it to run excursions.



Date: 03/29/14 14:37
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: BobP

NewRiverGeorge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not a priority like the taxpayers building an
> interstate highway between Phoenix and Las Vegas,
> Nevada.

or CA HSR nowhere to nowhere.



Date: 03/29/14 18:52
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: billio

HardYellow opines:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...I
> don’t think UPRR has any interest in the line,
> except for storage...

You must have talked to someone on the inside in Omaha.
S


> Several years ago, 2011, I
> contacted Raul Grijalva, the areas US Congressman.
> He has no interest in the project. Grijalva’s
> main concern is keeping the International Border
> open and getting re-elected every two years.

Wrong: his SOLE main concern is getting re-elected.



Date: 03/29/14 23:00
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: BCHellman

Actually there's reason to believe they are restoring the line now (not necessarily for passenger service, however). New signals are in place west of Buckeye. When I spied a signal construction gang working on the signals in November, I stopped and chatted. One gentleman told me they were installing new signals at a slow pace but were already near Hyder. No reason to go beyond Arlington if they had no plans on restoring the line (eventually).



Date: 03/30/14 05:09
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: ATSF3751

Agt-Highland Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As a taxpayer, why would the federal govt rebuild
> a private railroad??..
> That would be with some of my money??...


I understand some of "your" money is already being used for highways, airports, and harbor improvements as well. How do you feel about that? It's funny, I have a retired relative who is a self described Tea Party libertarian, who complains constantly about Government spending, until I asked her if she would be ok if we took away her Medicare and Social Security. I advised her most people get more in benefits from those programs then they pay in, depending on how long they live after benefits begin, leaving the taxpayers to subsidize them after their contribution is exhausted. A surprising number of her friends were not aware on this fact. I guess Government spending is only a problem when it goes for someone else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/30/14 05:25 by ATSF3751.



Date: 03/30/14 06:22
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: tacobell

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Agt-Highland Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > As a taxpayer, why would the federal govt
> rebuild
> > a private railroad??..
> > That would be with some of my money??...
>
>
> I understand some of "your" money is already
> being used for highways, airports, and harbor
> improvements as well. How do you feel about that?
> It's funny, I have a retired relative who is a
> self described Tea Party libertarian, who
> complains constantly about Government spending,
> until I asked her if she would be ok if we took
> away her Medicare and Social Security. I advised
> her most people get more in benefits from those
> programs then they pay in, depending on how long
> they live after benefits begin, leaving the
> taxpayers to subsidize them after their
> contribution is exhausted. A surprising number of
> her friends were not aware on this fact. I guess
> Government spending is only a problem when it goes
> for someone else.

Is this Trainorders or Politicorders? Cant we have a genuine discussion about rail related issues without liberals spouting the Democrat Party talking points? It kinda takes the enjoyment out of reading these posts.



Date: 03/30/14 06:45
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: 3rd_Raton

tacobell Wrote:

> Is this Trainorders or Politicorders? Cant we have
> a genuine discussion about rail related issues
> without liberals spouting the Democrat Party
> talking points?

Or Conservatives sprouting the latest Faux Spews talking points ....

> It kinda takes the enjoyment out
> of reading these posts.

Yes it does both ways

This thread will disappear in 5 ... 4 ... 3 ...



Date: 03/30/14 07:16
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: rswebber

It won't be Federal money. AZ is one of those states that doesn't want Federal money (but takes more than $1 for each $1 the state sends to the Federal Gov.).

Aside from that, why should it be Federal Money? Saying because AMT will use it misses the point. It would be a state supported train (if that), so why should ANY Federal money be involved?

Look at the Raton situation. Amtrak may kick in some, but right now, if the states don't deliver (and promise to continually (although as a lot of people know, THAT doesn't make it so)) it's a dead subject.

Is there a clamor for service? I doubt that if there is, it's any more than say, Colorado, Kansas, New Mexico, Indiana, Ohio or Wis - and see how well THOSE processes are going?

At a time when Amtrak can't find enough equipment (that is reliable) to run the trains they have, when you have false economies being touted as real savings (plastic flowers? Wine and Cheese tasting? ) how on earth do you propose Amtrak would be even interested. They have a station "close enough" to Phoenix. Just like, say, Madison has a close enough station (or three). Have YOU seen any interest by Amtrak in this market?

By the time the rails could be renewed and the roadbed refreshed, Amtrak will likely be out of the long haul service, will be an operator only (even over the NEC) and such decisions will only be the responsibility of states - so start there.

Call Jan and tell her you want to take a train to LA. Oh wait - aren't the two cities not talking? So...if the two cities aren't talking, and one (or both) have boycotts over the other, why should there be any interest in ANY transportation?



Date: 03/30/14 08:52
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: calzephyr48

I think the line is intact. Last I saw the signals at Wellton were in and functioning. I believe the western portion is designated "industrial lead" which means that there are certain use restrictions, as well as a different set of inspection standards.



Date: 03/30/14 09:30
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: dan




Date: 03/30/14 10:12
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: HardYellow

I believe they maintain the line west of Phoenix, past Buckeye so as to service the Palo Verde Nuclear Power Plant. I really don’t see the need for the ABS signals though.



Date: 03/30/14 12:31
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: bnsfbob

HardYellow Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe they maintain the line west of Phoenix,
> past Buckeye so as to service the Palo Verde
> Nuclear Power Plant. I really don’t see the need
> for the ABS signals though.

I don't either. I supposed the feds won't allow the ABS to be discontinued.

The main benefits of ABS (track occupancy safety and open switch/broken rail detection) aren't needed for this segment. TWC and 49mph max is fine for this line. The freight speed when the line was in service was 40 anyway.

Bob



Date: 03/30/14 13:08
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: RD10747

3751...I feel fine about it...We have been on 64 cruises since 1978..reads harbor
improvements...also flown coast to coast to get to ships..airport improvements and

driven on freeways to get to the Port of Los Angeles???...your point is???...



Date: 03/30/14 15:02
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: mococomike

Quaded the line this weekend and all cars removed from storage on the line. Search previous post on TO and you can see the new signals being installed. The line will reopen.



Date: 03/30/14 16:38
Re: Old SP Line/ Phoenix to Welton, AZ
Author: ts1457

mococomike Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quaded the line this weekend and all cars removed
> from storage on the line. Search previous post on
> TO and you can see the new signals being
> installed. The line will reopen.

That would be interesting indeed if UP did it own its own. Of Course, UP would not have to make the line available to Amtrak. You can't help but wonder if there was a way to make a deal so that Sunset service could be restored to Phoenix.



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