Passenger Trains > (Rep.) Titus seeks support to revive Amtrak in Vegas

Titus seeks support to revive Amtrak in Vegas
Las Vegas Review-Journal
by STEVE TETREAULT
Sept. 21, 2014

Sen. Harry Reid: "Amtrak...it's not very good..."

> WASHINGTON — With glitzier modes of passenger rail seemingly having
> fallen by the track, Rep. Dina Titus says Las Vegas should look into
> what it might take to restore conventional Amtrak service to Southern
> California.
>
> Titus said she’ll be shopping the idea to local leaders and economic
> development consultants this fall.
>
> She floated the plan last week when the House Transportation and
> Infrastructure Committee approved an Amtrak bill focused mostly at
> shoring up service along the Northeast Corridor, where
> government-subsidized rail makes money.
>
> “The Southwest is getting overlooked,” the Las Vegas Democrat said in
> an interview. “My proposal is let’s do a study to see if it makes
> sense to put rail back in. You have to start somewhere.”
>
> Amtrak dropped its Desert Wind route between Los Angeles and Ogden,
> Utah, via Las Vegas and Salt Lake City in 1997. Titus confessed she
> never boarded the Desert Wind, “but I would ride it now.”
>
> “There have been passenger studies, ridership studies in the past but
> since then our population has grown and our tourist population has
> grown by 10 million,” she said. Titus added tourists from Europe
> “like to ride the train.”
>
> Titus said she planned to meet with House Transportation Committee
> Chairman Bill Shuster, R-Pa., and to run the idea by Sen. Harry Reid,
> D-Nev., who might take some persuading.
>
> Reid said this summer he is committed to high-speed rail, and Amtrak
> “is not high-speed rail.”
>
> “It’s an antiquated system, and I’m glad we have it, but it’s not
> very good,” he said at an appearance in Las Vegas...

Full story:

Titus seeks support to revive Amtrak in Vegas



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/14 10:24 by GenePoon.

“There have been passenger studies, ridership studies in the past but
> since then our population has grown and our tourist population has
> grown by 10 million,” she said. Titus added tourists from Europe
> “like to ride the train.”

So I am confused. We should do yet ANOTHER study to confirm that the population has indeed increased. Reasonable deduction would conclude if it has, this is a positive influence for rail travel. How about they do a simple comparison of what the population WAS along the route when the Desert Wind last operated and what the CURRENT population is along the same route? If it went UP, then one can pretty much ascertain that the population growth would be positive to rail travel.

Instead we'll get another multi-million dollar study to prove that there "should be" a train between LA and Las Vegas (at least) - and as I already mentioned above if statements Titus mentions are true. Instead the "study money" should go into looking at equipment purchases or paying for upgrades etc.

Gotta love government......

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Titus seeks support to revive Amtrak in Vegas
> Las Vegas Review-Journal
> by STEVE TETREAULT
>
> Sen. Harry Reid: "Amtrak...it's not very good..."
>
> > WASHINGTON — With glitzier modes of passenger
> rail seemingly having
> > fallen by the track, Rep. Dina Titus says Las
> Vegas should look into
> > what it might take to restore conventional
> Amtrak service to Southern
> > California.
> >
> > Titus said she’ll be shopping the idea to
> local leaders and economic
> > development consultants this fall.
> >
> > She floated the plan last week when the House
> Transportation and
> > Infrastructure Committee approved an Amtrak bill
> focused mostly at
> > shoring up service along the Northeast Corridor,
> where
> > government-subsidized rail makes money.
> >
> > “The Southwest is getting overlooked,” the
> Las Vegas Democrat said in
> > an interview. “My proposal is let’s do a
> study to see if it makes
> > sense to put rail back in. You have to start
> somewhere.”
> >
> > Amtrak dropped its Desert Wind route between Los
> Angeles and Ogden,
> > Utah, via Las Vegas and Salt Lake City in 1997.
> Titus confessed she
> > never boarded the Desert Wind, “but I would
> ride it now.”
> >
> > “There have been passenger studies, ridership
> studies in the past but
> > since then our population has grown and our
> tourist population has
> > grown by 10 million,” she said. Titus added
> tourists from Europe
> > “like to ride the train.”
> >
> > Titus said she planned to meet with House
> Transportation Committee
> > Chairman Bill Shuster, R-Pa., and to run the
> idea by Sen. Harry Reid,
> > D-Nev., who might take some persuading.
> >
> > Reid said this summer he is committed to
> high-speed rail, and Amtrak
> > “is not high-speed rail.”
> >
> > “It’s an antiquated system, and I’m glad
> we have it, but it’s not
> > very good,” he said at an appearance in Las
> Vegas...
>
> Full story:
>
> Titus seeks support to revive Amtrak in Vegas

Is your primary reason in quoting this old story the possibility of service to Las Vegas, or what Reid said, which you have drawn out of context and placed at the top of the story?

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> So I am confused. We should do yet ANOTHER study
> to confirm that the population has indeed
> increased. Reasonable deduction would conclude if
> it has, this is a positive influence for rail
> travel. How about they do a simple comparison of
> what the population WAS along the route when the
> Desert Wind last operated and what the CURRENT
> population is along the same route? If it went UP,
> then one can pretty much ascertain that the
> population growth would be positive to rail
> travel.
>
> Instead we'll get another multi-million dollar
> study to prove that there "should be" a train
> between LA and Las Vegas (at least) - and as I
> already mentioned above if statements Titus
> mentions are true. Instead the "study money"
> should go into looking at equipment purchases or
> paying for upgrades etc.
>
> Gotta love government......

---

Ptolemy Wrote:

> Is your primary reason in quoting this old story
> the possibility of service to Las Vegas, or what
> Reid said, which you have drawn out of context and
> placed at the top of the story?


Does it matter? And if you don't know who your enemies are, what kind of advocate are you, anyway?

Old story? It's from last week!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/14 10:24 by GenePoon.

GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ptolemy Wrote:
>
> > Is your primary reason in quoting this old
> story
> > the possibility of service to Las Vegas, or
> what
> > Reid said, which you have drawn out of context
> and
> > placed at the top of the story?
>
>
> Does it matter? And if you don't know who your
> enemies are, what kind of advocate are you,
> anyway?
>
> Old story? It's from last week!

The story was first reported a month ago, and what Reid really said was "I am glad we have it [Amtrak], but it's really not very good." No one can disagree with that, but it puts a different context on the matter.

CORRECTION: I first heard about it through non-media sources, and it did take it a while to get into the media. Sorry!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/29/14 10:39 by Ptolemy.

jp1822 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I am confused. We should do yet ANOTHER study
> to confirm that the population has indeed
> increased. . . Instead we'll get another multi-million
> dollar study to prove that there "should be" a train
> between LA and Las Vegas . . .

You have to remember: There's a whole new generation of consultants on the scene now. The previous generation was well taken care of by the previous studies. Like their predecessors, this newest group, of course, has mortgage payments, kids-who-need-braces, private school tuitions, child support, alimony and other obligations that need to be met.

Is it any wonder that a new "cash cow" has to be created?

The irony of ironies is that most of these consultants probably harbor extreme conservative values and frequently admonish "welfare mothers" who are collecting public support. All they have to do is look in a mirror and discover they are just as guilty, the only difference being a layer or two of bureaucracy between the "welfare" check moving from the issuer to the receiver.

Oh, but wait. That's right. For their efforts we'll be treated to an 800 page (maybe) report from them, complete with photos, pie charts and graphs.

No further explanation or justification necessary.

How do you spell S-C-A-M?

Harry Reid is right on target.

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Harry Reid is right on target.

I agree. As he said, it is good we have Amtrak, but it needs to be a lot better.

Except for a few notable exceptions, long distance Amtrak won't improve much from what we have now, and that's because we are beholden to the freight railroads and their 'good enough for freight' mentality. As a result it will still take something like 7 hours to get to Las Vegas from LA or Salt Lake City. For the traveler who can't wait to part with his money that's about 6 hours longer than necessary. And for the little old ladies living on a pension taking the train is expensive compared to taking a charter bus to Vegas. It's likely the bus will get there sooner, too.

UP was never able to make a go of trains whose destination was Las Vegas, and this was in the days before I-15 and cars that didn't overheat while climbing the several desert grades.

The Desert Wind provided a much-needed link in the Amtrak system, providing direct service from LA to Salt Lake City and Denver. Las Vegas was a popular stop both for trains from the west and from the east, however it would be only half as popular if trains terminated at Las Vegas instead of running through.

Wow - great responses above, echoing my own thoughts on the topic
in sarcastic ways.

Two thoughts on the topic:

“There have been passenger studies, ridership studies in the past but
since then our population has grown and our tourist population has
grown by 10 million,” she said.

Our population has grown by 10 million since the last study(s)???
Weren't the last studies only months ago - if not a couple of years?

On the other-hand, despite the hilarious meme posted above - I do
find it hard to believe that no rail service exists to this major
metropolitan area. It always seemed insane to me that Las Vegas
could not (did not?) support continued service by rail either direct
or as a point along another route. Considering the population density
and it's status as a tourist destination and proximity to similar
cities of identical status.

Like Titus said: "You gotta (re-start) somewhere.

/Mitch

Yes, Mr. Poon leads off with an isolated quote from Harry Reid, which doesn't have much to do with the story; but, fits the anti-Amtrak message we usually get from Gene--i.e. "Amtrak...is not very good..."

This story is about Rep. Dina Titus trying to "revive Amtrak in Vegas". I'm sure if she is successful, Senator Reid would be very much in favor of it.

Although Gene tries to make Sen. Reid look bad with that miss-quote; the honorable Mr. Reid is sooo right when he said, as far as high-speed rail goes--"Amtrak...is not very good...". How could they be? There is none.

And, when Harry says that despite this, he's "glad to have" Amtrak, he is expressing the view of all rail supporters. Of course, the anti-Amtrak types will not agree with Mr. Reid on this. They prefer the views of the John Mica types.

Joe

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes, Mr. Poon leads off with an isolated quote
> from Harry Reid, which doesn't have much to do
> with the story;

It's a direct quote from the story....


"Reid said this summer he is committed to high-speed rail, and Amtrak “is not high-speed rail.”

“It’s an antiquated system, and I’m glad we have it, but it’s not very good,” he said at an appearance in Las Vegas.

I'm guessing there's no money in it for Reid - being that the former Amtrak routing is already laid and no land
would need to be sold in turn benefiting him nor his family or lobbyist. 'Shame the Maqlev never came to be -
it would've been worth a few million in payoffs.

/Mitch

Las Vegas to Los Angeles by rail is undoubtedly a route which should exist. But it doesn't, and it probably won't. Which is a shame.

The US doesn't have a national transportation policy to rationalize where $ are invested for the maximum benefit. So we spend federal dollars for highway improvements, as we spend dollars for more runways to serve those same city pairs. The French solved that problem by raising gas taxes, imposing highway tolls, and limiting airline slots for shorter hauls. Presto - full trains.

Harry Reid is a political whore, no better or no worse than many of his compatriots. He could have done a huge amount for Amtrak, and has done very little. But he's been good for consultants, and great for Yucca Mountain jobs.

To: Lakawanna484

I've got news for you; all politicians are, in a way, whores as you called Senator Reid. Yes, even those some hope will replace Senator Reid. They all play the same game--but to benefits accruing to different people.

But, don't let Mr.Poon's article lead us into our usual argument over political ideology (you know, "my team is better than your team").

The only value of this article is that someone is trying to make Amtrak service to Vegas a reality. What's to argue about?

Joe

floridajoe2001 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only value of this article is that someone is
> trying to make Amtrak service to Vegas a reality.
> What's to argue about?
>
> Joe

It's always worth questioning the motivation for such
projects. That this is not Reid's idea can only lend
credibility to the project.

/Mitch

To: Mgoldman

Right; got it; you dislike Harry Reid.

Question is; are you happy Dina Titus is trying to revive Amtrak service to Vegas? Or would you prefer to "question her motivation"; and just forget about service to Vegas?

Joe

Las Vegas is such a huge huge market. Everybody and their dog wants to go there, and Amtrak is totally out of the picture. Sad!

...and let us not forget the beloved "Environmental Impact Study" that would, through EPA fiat, be a required 3 to 10 million dollar part of this dream.
We'd have to make sure that trains full of gamblers would have no adverse effects on the Desert Mooch Grouse or the Mojave Pay-your-fair-share scorpion.

Seriously, it's seems like the Desert Wind would be a great fit to take advantage of the Vegas boom. It is not far-fetched to suggest that the Vegas tourism associations chip in part of the cost.
I've wondered why someone hasn't done the same thing on the CSX here in Florida between Orlando and Biloxi, Mississippi where casino gambling abounds.

Danny Harmon
Tampa

Narr8rdanny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...and let us not forget the beloved
> "Environmental Impact Study" that would, through
> EPA fiat, be a required 3 to 10 million dollar
> part of this dream.
> We'd have to make sure that trains full of
> gamblers would have no adverse effects on the
> Desert Mooch Grouse or the Mojave
> Pay-your-fair-share scorpion.
>
> Seriously, it's seems like the Desert Wind would
> be a great fit to take advantage of the Vegas
> boom. It is not far-fetched to suggest that the
> Vegas tourism associations chip in part of the
> cost.
> I've wondered why someone hasn't done the same
> thing on the CSX here in Florida between Orlando
> and Biloxi, Mississippi where casino gambling
> abounds.
>
> Danny Harmon
> Tampa

Good idea, although rivalries abound. Many observers believe the Gulf area has too many casino properties already so some closings may be in their future. FL wouldn't likely contribute much to a venture which sends money out of state, though.