Passenger Trains > Amtrak's access to Denver Union Station

It took about 25 minutes to travel the last 1-2 miles eastbound on the California Zephyr when I was travelling in October.

Is there anyway to speed this up?

AWFUL.

iliketrains Wrote:
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> It took about 25 minutes to travel the last 1-2
> miles eastbound on the California Zephyr when I
> was travelling in October.
>
> Is there anyway to speed this up?

============================
That route passes Union Pacific's busiest yard in the Denver area and train
speeds are limited to maximums of 25-40 mph. 

A dedicated passenger bypass would be a way to do it. 

It's a congested area. Even if space fould be found for such a
bypass, should Union Pacific pay for something they won't use? NO.

Is Amtrak going to pay for it for a once-per-day train?  NO. 

And then there is the last stretch into Denver Union Station. For the
last mile or so into the station, the train is under control of
BNSF and the speed limit is 10mph.

GenePoon Wrote:
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> iliketrains Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It took about 25 minutes to travel the last 1-2
> > miles eastbound on the California Zephyr when I
> > was travelling in October.
> >
> > Is there anyway to speed this up?
>
> ============================
> That route passes Union Pacific's busiest yard in
> the Denver area and train
> speeds are limited to maximums of 25-40 mph. 
>
> A dedicated passenger bypass would be a way to do
> it. 
>
> It's a congested area. Even if space fould be
> found for such a
> bypass, should Union Pacific pay for something
> they won't use? NO.
>
> Is Amtrak going to pay for it for a once-per-day
> train?  NO. 
>
> And then there is the last stretch into Denver
> Union Station. For the
> last mile or so into the station, the train is
> under control of
> BNSF and the speed limit is 10mph.

AND the train has to wye and back in to the station.

Is it true that at one time in Denver Union Station's history, there were tracks directly southwest of the station connecting with the northbound/southbound (now BNSF) former D&RGW and Santa Fe?  If so, that likely was a way (the way) to get passenger trains in/out of DUS without the subsequent UP railyard traffic jam and back-in to the wye maneuver.  Perhaps, the City and County of Denver in planning for the "new downtown" didn't take the DUS "approach and departure congestion" issue into consideration.

With regard to similar "wye and back-in to the station" scenarios: I recalled that LAUPT was, or is considering a southbound track out of the station to enable a run through for commuter trains and Amtrak.  Here's a link to a discussion.
http://www.railpac.org/2014/06/06/whats-so-great-about-run-through-tracks-at-la-union-station/

It is out of the question now... However a run-through track at Denver Union Station would have helped Amtrak alleviate delays.

I recall waiting a very long time for the RTD (Denver transit) switchman to line Number 6 in. The Amtrak conductor offered to line the switch but RTD said no. The final few thousand feet into Union Station were at a crawl.

Posted from Android

Before Amtrak the CZ and some UP thrutrains were wyed before coming into the station.  Everything else termanated at Denver. Nothing has changed.

stash Wrote:
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> I recall waiting a very long time for the RTD
> (Denver transit) switchman to line Number 6 in.
> The Amtrak conductor offered to line the switch
> but RTD said no. The final few thousand feet into
> Union Station were at a crawl.
>
> Posted from Android

Stash is correct. The last few thousand feet are under control of the RTD and they can take their time to respond to Amtrak requests.

Amtrak is a two-bit player in Denver.  If you want to play, you have to be prepared to pay, or at least actively participate.  In some ways, it's amazing that Amtrak is still present at Union Station:  it's not inconceivable that there might have been a proposal to relocate them out of downtown in an operationally more advantageous industrial area where they could have their own building, likely a mobile home.

There is no intercity rail culture in Colorado government, and Amtrak has done nothing to encourage a different viewpoint.

Imagine if Amtrak had a "on the shelf" proposal to operate a Front Range corridor service between Pueblo and Cheyenne, along with a cost estimate.   Not for Amtrak to fund, but to present to state and local partners to advocate for.

That's not the way it works at Amtrak.  They wait for others to approach them.

reindeerflame Wrote:
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> Imagine if Amtrak had a "on the shelf" proposal to
> operate a Front Range corridor service between
> Pueblo and Cheyenne, along with a cost
> estimate.   Not for Amtrak to fund, but to
> present to state and local partners to advocate
> for.
>
> That's not the way it works at Amtrak.  They wait
> for others to approach them.

Amtrak is not allowed to do that.  If you would like the law changed, perhaps you could contact your professional politician.

Brian

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Imagine if Amtrak had a "on the shelf" proposal
> to
> > operate a Front Range corridor service between
> > Pueblo and Cheyenne, along with a cost
> > estimate.   Not for Amtrak to fund, but to
> > present to state and local partners to advocate
> > for.
> >
> > That's not the way it works at Amtrak.  They
> wait
> > for others to approach them.
>
> Amtrak is not allowed to do that.  If you would
> like the law changed, perhaps you could contact
> your professional politician.
>
> Brian

Of course Amtrak can do this -- don't be silly.