Passenger Trains > (Th) New diners on train 97?

Any sightings?

Posted from Android

Yes, in Chuchubob's North Philadelphia post immediately below.

So, in the TO usual mode of speculation in advance of facts, will the new Viewliner diners be used to replace presently operable Heritage units or return service to routes with "temporary" substitute dining options?

In other words, do 97/98 and 19/20 get the new diners before 48/49 get a real diner back? (Not even dreaming about 91/92 or 50/51)

Well the original Viewliner diner has been in the 97/98 rotation so needs only 1 of the new ones. Darn, can't remember how many train sets 97/98 use so may be both.

Sharon Evans
Glen Allen, VA

CPR_4000 Wrote:
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> Yes, in Chuchubob's North Philadelphia post
> immediately below.

Thank you. I didn't realize that set covered train 97

Just my opinion, not starting a rumor, that these latest diners will go to Meteor/Crescent service to get Heritage cars off the NEC, ASAP, and when they are confident in them, cascade 3 Heritage diners to the Lake Shore Ltd, which as a shorter run, serves only 2 meals per trip. Hopefully, they will be gone in time and not endure another Sunnyside and Chicago winter, except for axle count cars on the IC/CN.

When they get all 25, and probably placed on the Cardinal as well, 5 Amfleet-2 dinettes will be freed up, then maybe cascade them to Palmetto/Pennsylvanian with a spare.

IF the new diners go on the Silver Meteor, will that allow an increase in speed on the NEC?

I think so. Heritage cars limit a train's speed limit. But then, what trains are then officially designated to handle PV's for those that cannot go 125 or 130 MPH ?

RevRandy Wrote:
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> So, in the TO usual mode of speculation in advance
> of facts, will the new Viewliner diners be used to
> replace presently operable Heritage units or
> return service to routes with "temporary"
> substitute dining options?
>
Since facts rarely interfere with TO rants, I'm going to go way out on a limb with what is PURE speculation.

1. I think Amtrak's priority is to get the heritage diners out of service as quickly as possible and they will not be bounced to 48/49. Only after 97/98 and 19/20 are reequipped will real dining service be reintroduced on 48/49.

2. The CAF diner order will be capped at the same level as the bag-dorms, though perhaps a couple additional as it will be more important to have spare diners than spare bag-dorms where a full baggage car and revenue sleeper space can be used if necessary. The balance of the diner shells will be somehow reconfigured into a "diner-lite" concept that can be worked by two people and not involve waiter service. I don't see Amtrak increasing its costs on 91/92 and 50/51 by adding the additional people required to provide full dining service, and cars I describe would certainly be an improvement over what is there today. I'd have to count the number of cars required, but there could be enough to assign a new "diner-lite" to 89/90 which would be nice, or to a Montreal train if one was ever reestablished.

Remember, I have NO facts to support this assertion, but also remember you heard it here first.

Gordon

MORE SPECULATION

I believe Amtrak has four train sets in the 97/98 rotation. One uses the prototype diner, from what's been said here. So, if they decided to pull 2 heritage diners of the three now in use, and replace the 2 with the incoming set, they'd just have one old diner.

(The baggage cars required some familiarization at terminals, and with crews. I wonder if they'll take a few weeks to do that with 97/98? Or just put 'em in revenue service.)

Both the prototype diner and the first CAF one have been in service on 97/98, so adding the two now being delivered should finish these trains. Also, Hialeah is already familiar with the CAF diners and the on-board personnel should be as well, so I expect to see the two new cars in service pretty quickly.

Gordon

Is the new CAF diner on 97/98 the Albany. Albany
seems to have disappeared.

Pure speculation on my part, but.. Amtrak may decide to keep the present AmCafe on the Cardinal and Star. If so, there will be surplus diners. So, when the new sleepers appear perhaps the plan will be to make the Capitol Ltd a single level train. This would facilitate through cars from the Pennsylvanian. And if anyone could make the changes needed to the NS switches in the Pittsburgh station to enable this, it would be Mr. Moorman.

I would gladly trade a Superliner Lounge for a through sleeper from NYP to Chicago via the route of the Broadway Ltd.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/27/17 14:52 by palmland.

Here's hope, but not speculation.  Lake Shore Limited dining cars serving walleye for dinner with regional beers (like those brewed by the Great Lakes Brewery).

The Albany was the first car out for testing and went back to Elmira long ago. Current diners are...

1..Indianapolis which is the prototype done by Beech Grove
2..Annapolis which is first revenue diner delivered by CAF
3..Atlanta just delivered this week
4..Augusta just delivered this week




CP8888 Wrote:
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> Is the new CAF diner on 97/98 the Albany. Albany
> seems to have disappeared.

< So, when the new sleepers appear perhaps the plan will be to make the Capitol Ltd a single level train. >

Where are the coaches to do that ?

< This would facilitate through cars from the Pennsylvanian.>

No it wouldn't. They can do it right now by simply putting the Trans-Dorm on the rear facing backwards as they did in the late 1990's, and as specified in the 2010 Performance Improvement Plan. It has not been done due to managerial lethargy and dissing of all the PIP's.

For what it is worth, the "enhanced" cafe menu on the Silver Star has been discontinued. Having just rode 91/92, the onboard service staff was allegedly told by management that full diner service is "supposed" to be reinstated on the Star, once enough of the new diners are delivered.

Posted from Android

gbmott Wrote:
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> 2. The CAF diner order will be capped at the same
> level as the bag-dorms, though perhaps a couple
> additional as it will be more important to have
> spare diners than spare bag-dorms where a full
> baggage car and revenue sleeper space can be used
> if necessary. The balance of the diner shells
> will be somehow reconfigured into a "diner-lite"
> concept that can be worked by two people and not
> involve waiter service.

I'm just curious why you seem to think there would be a correlation between the baggage dorms, and the diners. The baggage dorms are intended to get the onboard staff out of the SLEEPING CARS, where they take up revenue space. This becomes more critical on the yet-to-be delivered Viewliner sleepers, which replace the attendant's room with a bathroom (since the new cars will lack toilets in the roomettes). Using revenue space to house a "diner lite" crew is self defeating. Yes, your staffing costs are less ... but your revenue is also reduced by putting them in space you could sell.

It is likely a moot point anyway, since Amtrak's order was for 25 each of the diners and baggage-dorms. No need to "cap" an order that is already equal.

Judging by the lack of patronage in the café car on 91/92 during a recent trip, Amtrak is losing quite a bit of money by folks "brown bagging" it instead of spending money onboard with a full-service diner. The sleepers were sold out both directions, but you wouldn't have known it by the lines (the lack thereof, more specifically) in the café car.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/17 22:46 by bioyans.

The CAF order is what it is. Change orders at this time would be unacceptable.

I don't accept the notion that the Silver Star's diner was way under-used. A couple of times 5 - 7 years ago we had quite a good lunch crowd in there on 91 leaving Philly, at point at which the coaches are nowhere near peak load capacity, which is south of DC.

Decouple the diner and sleeper accounting on this train, and have cheaper, HEALTHIER diner-lite meals.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> The CAF order is what it is. Change orders at this
> time would be unacceptable.
>
> I don't accept the notion that the Silver Star's
> diner was way under-used. A couple of times 5 - 7
> years ago we had quite a good lunch crowd in there
> on 91 leaving Philly, at point at which the
> coaches are nowhere near peak load capacity, which
> is south of DC.
>
> Decouple the diner and sleeper accounting on this
> train, and have cheaper, HEALTHIER diner-lite
> meals.

I would agree. I doubt you are going to see a Viewliner "Diner Lite" configuration especially if Amtrak wants things standardized. They could easily operate a diner on the Cardinal but then tweak it to whatever service they want to offer. Gunn had proposed new regular diners and then new combo diner/café service. But that's not how they put this order together. Conceivably they could run a regular café service (Amfleet II whatever) and then the Viewliner Diner. Two people would operate the Diner in a "Diner Lite" format and one in the café service. What will be key is that they allow people IN the diner for meals or whatever to enjoy the scenery on this route, as the Viewliner Diner is the closest that any East Coast train is going to get to a Superliner Sightseer Lounge. It does offer a nice view!