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Date: 09/12/17 12:38
Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMISSED
Author: GenePoon

Charges dropped against Amtrak engineer in 2015 derailment
Philadelphia Inquirer
by Jason Laughlin, Staff Writer

A judge has dismissed all charges against Amtrak engineer Brandon Bostian,
who was driving the train that derailed in 2015, killing eight people and
injuring 150.

At a preliminary hearing Tuesday, Common Pleas Judge Thomas Gehret ruled
there was no evidence of a crime.

“It’s a horrible tragedy, but the law recognized there’s a big difference
between an accident and a crime,” said Bostian’s attorney Brian McMonagle.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/charges-dropped-against-amtrak-engineer-in-fatal-derailment-20170912.html



Date: 09/12/17 12:46
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: Lackawanna484

well done

now, Mr Bostian should be restored to service, with back pay



Date: 09/12/17 13:09
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: PC1974

Quote: "now, Mr Bostian should be restored to service, with back pay"...

Really? You want him behind the controls of your train when he can't multi-task and apply situational awareness... He may not be a criminal, but that doesn't translate to competent. WOW!



Date: 09/12/17 13:16
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: OTG

PC1974 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote: "now, Mr Bostian should be restored to
> service, with back pay"...
>
> Really? You want him behind the controls of your
> train when he can't multi-task and apply
> situational awareness... He may not be a criminal,
> but that doesn't translate to competent. WOW!

He was proven quite competent in the five or so years prior to the accident. He had a lapse in situational awareness; believe me when I say that it happens far more often than most people realize, or would like to believe. Just because it happened to him at a point where it led to such a terrible crash doesn't mean he should be prosecuted any differently than any other engineer. 30 days on the ground, anything after that is excessive.

Believe me when I say he has punished himself far worse than anybody else ever can or will. Even if he's offered the opportunity to return to the seat he may not want to take it.



Date: 09/12/17 13:18
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: jst3751

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well done
>
> now, Mr Bostian should be restored to service,
> with back pay

Just because there is no CRIMINAL case against him does not mean he is without blame or cause.



Date: 09/12/17 13:22
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: drggnfan

There will be civil actions against him!



Date: 09/12/17 13:56
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: TAW

OTG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PC1974 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Quote: "now, Mr Bostian should be restored to
> > service, with back pay"...
> >
> > Really? You want him behind the controls of
> your
> > train when he can't multi-task and apply
> > situational awareness... He may not be a
> criminal,
> > but that doesn't translate to competent. WOW!
>
> He was proven quite competent in the five or so
> years prior to the accident. He had a lapse in
> situational awareness; believe me when I say that
> it happens far more often than most people
> realize, or would like to believe. Just because
> it happened to him at a point where it led to such
> a terrible crash doesn't mean he should be
> prosecuted any differently than any other
> engineer. 30 days on the ground, anything after
> that is excessive.
>
> Believe me when I say he has punished himself far
> worse than anybody else ever can or will. Even if
> he's offered the opportunity to return to the seat
> he may not want to take it.

This kind of discussion went on right after the incident. Nobody knows what happened or why. Among other things, I pointed out a Wabash crew that hit a trailer in the plant, nowhere near a crossing, at B&OCT 75th Street. There was no reason to expect a trailer on the track there. It was in a dark spot and in a curve, so they didn't see it until they hit it in a cab-first switch engine, kind of like being in a flat-front passenger locomotive. It took a second or two for the engineer to react and plug it. I had to wait for aluminum, frame members, wheels, etc. to stop raining from the sky before I could get there. I climbed on and when I entered the cab, the engineer and head man were still sitting, staring ahead. I asked if they were ok. A few seconds passed before the engineer said Yeah, I think so. What happened?

I had one go in the ditch one time. The head man ran to the phone (no radio then) to report the derailment. He was still in shock too and didn't know where he was. When asked where, he responded that it was right near the phone. It took a minute go get him to figure out where he was.

To my knowledge, the smashed sections of the windshield have never been explained. Maybe there was more to this than meets the eye or the investigation. Apparently we will never know that either.

All there is to go on is his record and how he feels about coming back. He might not be able to handle it. PTSD could be very unkind to him.

Meanwhile, I worked with a couple of BN guys who screwed up all the time. They left a string of derailed and wrecked equipment in their wake and even ran into their own train from the adjacent track twice. They laughed about it. They were still laughing about it a couple of hours later when they managed to get to Bellingham (where I was the operator) with the head end. THEY always came back to work, no problem. No they didn't kill anyone, but that was only luck. After an incident in Ferndale, a couple of blocks from my house, I saw from the crossing on my way home, a pile of big white tank cars full of 1075. Had they managed to puncture one instead of piling them up, I would have come home to my neighborhood being drastically altered.

TAW



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/17 14:01 by TAW.



Date: 09/12/17 13:59
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: jst3751

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OTG Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > PC1974 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Quote: "now, Mr Bostian should be restored to
> > > service, with back pay"...
> > >
> > > Really? You want him behind the controls of
> > your
> > > train when he can't multi-task and apply
> > > situational awareness... He may not be a
> > criminal,
> > > but that doesn't translate to competent.
> WOW!
> >
> > He was proven quite competent in the five or so
> > years prior to the accident. He had a lapse in
> > situational awareness; believe me when I say
> that
> > it happens far more often than most people
> > realize, or would like to believe. Just
> because
> > it happened to him at a point where it led to
> such
> > a terrible crash doesn't mean he should be
> > prosecuted any differently than any other
> > engineer. 30 days on the ground, anything
> after
> > that is excessive.
> >
> > Believe me when I say he has punished himself
> far
> > worse than anybody else ever can or will. Even
> if
> > he's offered the opportunity to return to the
> seat
> > he may not want to take it.
>
> This kind of discussion went on right after the
> incident. Nobody knows what happened or why. Among
> other things, I pointed out a Wabash crew that hit
> a trailer in the plant, nowhere near a crossing,
> at B&OCT 75th Street. There was no reason to
> expect a trailer on the track there. It was in a
> dark spot and in a curve, so they didn't see it
> until they hit it in a cab-first switch engine,
> kind of like being in a flat-front passenger
> locomotive. It took a second or two for the
> engineer to react and plug it. I had to wait for
> aluminum, frame members, wheels, etc. to stop
> raining from the sky before I could get there. I
> climbed on and when I entered the cab, the
> engineer and head man were still sitting, staring
> ahead. I asked if they were ok. A few seconds
> passed before the engineer said Yeah, I think so.
> What happened?
>
> I had one go in the ditch one time. The head man
> ran to the phone (no radio then) to report the
> derailment. He was still in shock too and didn't
> know where he was. When asked where, he responded
> that it was right near the phone. It took a minute
> go get him to figure out where he was.
>
> To my knowledge, the smashed sections of the
> windshield have never been explained. Maybe there
> was more to this than meets the eye or the
> investigation. Apparently we will never know that
> either.
>
> All there is to go on is his record and how he
> feels about coming back. He might not be able to
> handle it. PTSD could be very unkind to him.
>
> TAW

Thank you TAW for your fresh words of reason.



Date: 09/12/17 14:11
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: jointauthority

I don't think he should be brought back, especially with back pay. Some situations call for permanent dismissal and in my opinion I think this is one of those situations. He shouldn't go to jail, but he should never work the rails again.

"30 days on the ground, anything after that is excessive. "
OTG, I can't believe anyone would say that.

I think stuff like this is part of the reason the general public is so anti union....

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well done
>
> now, Mr Bostian should be restored to service,
> with back pay

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/17 14:16 by jointauthority.



Date: 09/12/17 14:11
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: SD45X

We had a "Teflon Don" when I hired out as well.



Date: 09/12/17 14:27
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: Lackawanna484

The context of the accident is important. Then-Mayor Nutter was expecting the Pope in a few weeks, and Philly was crawling with law enforcement ahead of the massive visit.

No way Mr Nutter would allow any vicious report of Philly as a lawless city with thugs firing weapons at trains etc to spoil his moment in the sun. He threw Bostian under the train even before the wheels stopped. The media joined the chorus seeking his head, as did others.

The reports of shots at the other trains won't be resolved. No interest in that...



Date: 09/12/17 14:28
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: CPCoyote

That's absolutely the correct ruling. This was a terrible accident, not a crime. That said, it doesn't absolve Mr. Bostian of all blame and I'm sure civil lawsuits are coming.

As someone else mentioned, loss of situational awareness happens more than we think, especially at night, and especially when multiple situations are happening around you. As for getting back behind the throttle, I doubt if Mr. Bostian would want to do that, but if his safety record was clean up until the accident, he should certainly be allowed to, perhaps with restrictions.



Date: 09/12/17 15:49
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: ALCO630

Would everybody be this forgiving if it was a truck drivers fault?...


... I didn't think so.

Posted from Android

Doug Wetherhold
Allentown, PA



Date: 09/12/17 15:51
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: MinesField

PC1974 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Quote: "now, Mr Bostian should be restored to
> service, with back pay"...
>
> Really? You want him behind the controls of your
> train when he can't multi-task and apply
> situational awareness... He may not be a criminal,
> but that doesn't translate to competent. WOW!

This is where the blame lies:

"The agency (NTSB) also called Amtrak’s long failure to implement automatic speed control throughout the busy Northeast Corridor a contributing factor.

Give the man back pay and return him to service. He is one of the most competent men I've ever worked with.



Date: 09/12/17 16:04
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: ExSPCondr

1. He doesn't deserve back pay, because he did screw up, and was not improperly withheld from service. That being said, I would be scared of the same thing happening again or what if something else close happens that is not his fault? Amtrak will be successfully sued again!

2. What is the best solution to this? Return him to service on a leniency basis RESTRICTED TO CONDUCTOR. This gives him good earnings, in a job he likes, and nobody can crab.
G



Date: 09/12/17 16:13
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: alamedafrank

You've got to be kidding, I would not trust him to walk my dog. After causing the deaths of these passengers he has no business to ever be on railroad property again!



Date: 09/12/17 16:28
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: PacNWZ12

Foamers and Railfans have no Merritt saying if he should be returned or not returned to service. Leave that to the RAILROADERS and the people who have worked with him. He is a very outstanding employee and is/was very competent at his job. Nicest guy you could meet. All humans mess up at some point, but it DOES NOT define them as a person. Have some compassion you arm chair foamers/railfans, as well as the railroaders calling him out who haven't messed up whether big or small...yet.



Date: 09/12/17 16:41
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: MinesField

PacNWZ12 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Foamers and Railfans have no Merritt saying if he
> should be returned or not returned to service.
> Leave that to the RAILROADERS and the people who
> have worked with him. He is a very outstanding
> employee and is/was very competent at his job.

Agree Agree Agree Agree!!!



Date: 09/12/17 16:47
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: Molino

Just out of curiosity, if this individual did in-fact return to his previous occupation, how many people would actually question each Cndr. every time they stepped on a train as to the name of the Engr. ?
I don't think that information would be required to be disclosed to the general public. No-matter how many miles one has ridden or can name a switch engine paint scheme from 1950.



Date: 09/12/17 16:49
Re: Charges agains Bostian(engineer in Philly Amtrak wreck) DISMI
Author: krm152

Too often in today’s society, the innocent victims of accidents are forgotten as sympathy and concern are misdirected to the individual RESPONSIBLE for the tragic event.
The PRIMARY CAUSE of the accident was ENGINEER ERROR. 8 DEATHS and 200 INJURIES resulted from Mr. Bostian’s FAILURE to meet his RESPONSIBILITY to safely operate the train at all times.
If the primary cause of an airliner accident resulting in deaths and injuries was pilot error, then that pilot would no longer be piloting airliners.
There is no reason Mr. Bostian should be treated differently just because he was operating a train. He, therefore, should be barred from being an engineer and from any other position in which he would have the opportunity to cause a train collision.
ALLEN



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