Passenger Trains > Should "fare evasion" be decriminalized?

Manhattan prosecutor Cy Vance has decided not to prosecute fare evaders on the NYC subways as criminals. Instead, he proposes a series of interventions, counseling, and administrative sanctions including fines. Basically making this a civil matter like a noise complaint or spitting on the sidewalk. The decision applies only in Manhattan, the other four boroughs / counties will continue to treat fare evasion as a criminal matter. Which is the law in NY.

Fare evasion apprehension is a cornerstone of the "broken windows" police practice popularized by one time NYCTA and NYC police chief Bill Bratton. Enforce minor laws, and search for weapons, drugs, fugitives, or warrant evaders. Break a small law, and you may find yourself on the way downtown.

The crime rate on the subways has dropped by more than 50% since the 1990s, and there's general agreement that the subways are safer. But the jails are full of people who can't make bail, and may wait six months, only to have charges dismissed or adjudicated for time served.

Two Brooklyn legislators are seeking to change state law to decriminalize fare evasion, along with other so called minor crimes like selling small amounts of un-taxed cigarettes. That would require outer borough enforcement to follow Vance's precedent.

Politics, pure and simple. Glad I don't live there.

-John

No

Let the losers off the hook. The honest people can pay fares.

Posted from Android

Thieves are thieves and they know it.

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

Thieves not convicted felons can vote. Certain politicians know that. Decriminalization is, in effect, buying votes.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/17 22:51 by GenePoon.

Only if I can "evade" my tax payment obligations!

More liberal politics run amok. It's not the criminal's fault. Somehow it's the honest people's fault because society has cast the fare evaders a bad hand. Just like some said the looters in Florida shouldn't be prosecuted for stealing after the recent hurricane because they really needed the stuff they were stealing....like TV's and computers.

Wow. Glad I don't rely on public transportation in New York City.

Posted from Android

Going after fare evaders is what got New York City crime under control, since many were guilty of far more dangerous crimes.

The proposal DOES NOT give a pass to fare evaders. Just issue a ticket and pay the fine. Just like a parking ticket. Cheaper and just as effective. Lock ups need to be used for dangerous people. And they are a drain on taxpayers. We need a better way. This is a start.

You don't understand broken windows strategy.
This is a start to go back to the 1980's.

And how good does that work? Not well as the tickets pile up because there is no reason to pay them. At lest with a car there is something that can be impounded, oh that is like what they are doing now except with people. Think it should stay the way it is works ok for cars and people see.

BAB Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And how good does that work? Not well as the
> tickets pile up because there is no reason to pay
> them. At lest with a car there is something that
> can be impounded, oh that is like what they are
> doing now except with people. Think it should stay
> the way it is works ok for cars and people see.


If you blow off the ticket / fine, and a warrant is issued, you can find yourself behind bars. That's part of the discretion available to the officer when you get apprehended the second or third time, etc.

No different than blowing off a speeding ticket, and getting stopped again with a want/warrant/hold on your account. Maybe you get another ticket, maybe you get cuffed and held for the originating agency to fetch you.

and what happens when the system is OVERLOADED with misdemeanor warrants for fta's on fare evasions? will those be forgiven?

66

goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and what happens when the system is OVERLOADED
> with misdemeanor warrants for fta's on fare
> evasions? will those be forgiven?
>
> 66

Yes, it is a nationwide push to promote lawlessness.
C(r)ook County, Illinois of which Chicago is a part does not even
want to pursue shoplifting cases unless over $1,000. They also want
to let you walk out of jail if you don't have money to make bail.

All part of the assault on the truly good people who live and work
in big cities.

Nice theory but it is not reality in California. Get multiple tickets or ignore them and nobody will see jail or punishment. That is fact.

The honest subsidize the losers. Again.




Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> BAB Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And how good does that work? Not well as the
> > tickets pile up because there is no reason to
> pay
> > them. At lest with a car there is something
> that
> > can be impounded, oh that is like what they are
> > doing now except with people. Think it should
> stay
> > the way it is works ok for cars and people see.
>
>
> If you blow off the ticket / fine, and a warrant
> is issued, you can find yourself behind bars.
> That's part of the discretion available to the
> officer when you get apprehended the second or
> third time, etc.
>
> No different than blowing off a speeding ticket,
> and getting stopped again with a want/warrant/hold
> on your account. Maybe you get another ticket,
> maybe you get cuffed and held for the originating
> agency to fetch you.

Posted from Android

stash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nice theory but it is not reality in California.
> Get multiple tickets or ignore them and nobody
> will see jail or punishment. That is fact.
>
> The honest subsidize the losers. Again.
>
>
>
>
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > BAB Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > And how good does that work? Not well as the
> > > tickets pile up because there is no reason to
> > pay
> > > them. At lest with a car there is something
> > that
> > > can be impounded, oh that is like what they
> are
> > > doing now except with people. Think it should
> > stay
> > > the way it is works ok for cars and people
> see.
> >
> >
> > If you blow off the ticket / fine, and a
> warrant
> > is issued, you can find yourself behind bars.
> > That's part of the discretion available to the
> > officer when you get apprehended the second or
> > third time, etc.
> >
> > No different than blowing off a speeding
> ticket,
> > and getting stopped again with a
> want/warrant/hold
> > on your account. Maybe you get another ticket,
> > maybe you get cuffed and held for the
> originating
> > agency to fetch you.
>
> Posted from Android


That may be a problem with "California" rather than with "the law"

NJ and FL both use the practice pretty effectively, and it also plays into ICE detainers. If the warrant-ignorer is wanted by Immigration, off they go.

Jail time guaranteed along with hard labor would likely deter fare evasion. Although that could be offensive to criminals.


goneon66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> and what happens when the system is OVERLOADED
> with misdemeanor warrants for fta's on fare
> evasions? will those be forgiven?
>
> 66

Posted from Android

NormSchultze Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The proposal DOES NOT give a pass to fare evaders.
> Just issue a ticket and pay the fine. Just like a
> parking ticket. Cheaper and just as effective.
> Lock ups need to be used for dangerous people. And
> they are a drain on taxpayers. We need a better
> way. This is a start.

I agree. This is common sense. Let's be pragmatic and forget the principles!