Passenger Trains > CAF

On my current European train trip I have been in Spain for seven days and ridden on numerous CAF cars, especially subway cars. This morning trip on the Madrid red line was nice new CAF cars looking good.
If CAF can do it here, why not for Amtrak's V2 order? Years of delay.... Any insights?

Posted from iPhone

No, but Bombardier can't seem to get anything done here anymore either. I am thinking of the NYCT R179 subway cars, which caused them to be disqualified from the huge R211 order.

And then there is the total failure of the new cars for midwest, et al, which could not withstand crash tests, from a world respected manufacturer. It is not just one producer ... which makes me wonder if we have set too high standards here in the US, or if we really need to back off and order off-the-shelf products like most other countries seem to do.

A re-invented Surfliner car, with a 800K lb buff standard, a weight limit, and need for it to go way over 90MPH. Maybe it's not physically possible, I don't know.

There's a reason we've got equipment that weighs 50% more, derails about 50% more, wears down the infrastructure 50% faster, and it all travels about 50% slower.* We're stuck in the 50's.

If you've ridden trains in the EU, or neighboring countries, you'd see the difference.

We've literally driven all the US passenger car manufacturers out of business, due to lack of orders.


*-numbers aren't scientific. The derailment "factor" included freight too.

It is telling that both Siemens and Alstom dropped out of the bidding process for the California/Midwest bi-level car order apparently over disagreement on compliance with the committee generated specification. Siemens has also said that they will not build cars compliant fully with the single level committee generated specification, unless certain changes are made to make them economically manufacturable. The ultimate victory of bureaucracy over common sense, and we are left to suffer with no new equipment, or paying through our noses for them if and when they eventually appear from somewhere. Note that the Acela II program with Alstom does not have to meet any of the committee generated specifications.

Siemens did not drop out, they were not the preferred builder. Siemens presented a design during the RFP, and the Japanese we the preferred design, and it went no further.

Jishnu Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It is telling that both Siemens and Alstom dropped
> out of the bidding process for the
> California/Midwest bi-level car order apparently
> over disagreement on compliance with the committee
> generated specification. Siemens has also said
> that they will not build cars compliant fully with
> the single level committee generated
> specification, unless certain changes are made to
> make them economically manufacturable. The
> ultimate victory of bureaucracy over common sense,
> and we are left to suffer with no new equipment,
> or paying through our noses for them if and when
> they eventually appear from somewhere. Note that
> the Acela II program with Alstom does not have to
> meet any of the committee generated
> specifications.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/17 11:10 by KM-ML4000.

KM-ML4000 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Siemens did not drop out, they were not the
> preferred builder. Siemens presented a design
> during the RFP, and the Japanese we the preferred
> design, and it went no further.
>
> Jishnu Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It is telling that both Siemens and Alstom
> dropped
> > out of the bidding process for the
> > California/Midwest bi-level car order
> apparently
> > over disagreement on compliance with the
> committee
> > generated specification. Siemens has also said
> > that they will not build cars compliant fully
> with
> > the single level committee generated
> > specification, unless certain changes are made
> to
> > make them economically manufacturable. The
> > ultimate victory of bureaucracy over common
> sense,
> > and we are left to suffer with no new
> equipment,
> > or paying through our noses for them if and
> when
> > they eventually appear from somewhere. Note
> that
> > the Acela II program with Alstom does not have
> to
> > meet any of the committee generated
> > specifications.


Oh well. That choice of design clearly worked out very well indeed :P

Why must we speculate like this? All this guessing and wondering over a car order!

Did anyone in the rail media ever ASK Nippon?

What good is Trains Mag, Railway Age, Progressive Railroading, NARP, if they can't find out what's wrong.
Are the all under a gag order, or sworn to secrecy?

Who said they would answer ? They probably would not.

Given that the Nippon Sharyo fiasco is likely to be the subject of litigation, it's not surprising that all the parties (Caltrans, IDOT, Sumitomo, and Nippon Sharyo) have clammed up.

IDOT posted a formal notice in late August that Nippon Sharyo was out and Siemens was in as subcontractor to Sumitomo. Once it became public, it was pulled down within hours.

Otherwise, there's been radio silence since Caltrans abruptly canceled a Jan. 2017 public presentation on the bilevel car order.

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,4200636

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/17 13:19 by Dcmcrider.

ronald321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why must we speculate like this? All this
> guessing and wondering over a car order!
>
> Did anyone in the rail media ever ASK Nippon?
>
> What good is Trains Mag, Railway Age, Progressive
> Railroading, NARP, if they can't find out what's
> wrong.
> Are the all under a gag order, or sworn to
> secrecy?

I understand that they are indeed sworn to silence while negotiations are ongoing to find an out from the mess. At least in the companies I have worked for talking to the media or anyone outside on a matter under discussion with huge financial and legal consequences is cause for summary dismissal on the spot and being escorted out of the building.