Passenger Trains > New Pacific Surfliner Schedule

LOSSAN politics have destroyed Train 761. No more through trips from points south of L.A. in the morning. Passengers arriving in L.A. at 7:03 AM will no longer have a one seat ride to points north. They will now wait until 9:11 AM for the first train north, arriving in Santa Barbara at 11:41 AM. A new train 759 will now leave L.A. at 4:09 AM, arriving in Santa Barbara at 6:47 AM. This "commuter" train will fail within a year. At least they left 1761 alone on weekends so that there's still a one seat ride in the morning, arriving in Santa Barbara at 10:10 AM. If this is what "local control" is going to do to the state intercity rail service, perhaps the state should start running it again ! See the LOSAAN Agenda page for more details.

See the LOSAAN Agenda page for more details.

Gotta link?

I thought as a result of the mudslides and the popularity of the Surfliner during the time the highway was closed, they were going to increase service, not decrease it once the emergency was past. Please explain if you can?

https://lossan.legistar.com/Calendar.aspx

SanDiegan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOSSAN politics have destroyed Train 761. No more
> through trips from points south of L.A. in the
> morning. Passengers arriving in L.A. at 7:03 AM
> will no longer have a one seat ride to points
> north. They will now wait until 9:11 AM for the
> first train north, arriving in Santa Barbara at
> 11:41 AM. A new train 759 will now leave L.A. at
> 4:09 AM, arriving in Santa Barbara at 6:47 AM.
> This "commuter" train will fail within a year. At
> least they left 1761 alone on weekends so that
> there's still a one seat ride in the morning,
> arriving in Santa Barbara at 10:10 AM. If this is
> what "local control" is going to do to the state
> intercity rail service, perhaps the state should
> start running it again ! See the LOSAAN Agenda
> page for more details.

I firmly believe that they are making this change based upon information obtained that would support their decision.

What exactly is your information that would show it will fail and has "destroyed" train 761?

Of course, you have failed to respond to past requests for data to back up your accusations, so I doubt you will provide any data this time as well.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/18 10:51 by jst3751.

If you feel so strongly against LOSSAN's decisions, you should attend their board meeting and let your voice be heard.

I don't understand this either, because a 4:09am departure from LAX is useless for Amtrak inter-city passengers.

If there is a commuter demand at this early hour, why didn't they establish a new Metrolink train?

I can only assume that the former Amtrak train leaving LAX at 7:35am was not that popular??

.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/18 13:04 by darkcloud.

Santa Barbara County is not part of the Metrolink system, so the Surfliner is the only game in town.

I say give it a chance. Time will tell whether it’s a good idea or not.

ronald321 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't understand this either, because a 4:09am
> departure from LAX is useless for Amtrak
> inter-city passengers.
>
> If there is a commuter demand at this early hour,
> why didn't they establish a new Metrolink train?
>
> I can only assume that the former Amtrak train
> leaving LAX at 7:35am was not that popular??

It did fine and was a through train from San Diego. Through trains generate a lot more passenger miles and revenue. This is purely to serve the huge "commuter" market between Oxnard/Ventura and Santa Barbara.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/18 11:06 by SanDiegan.

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SanDiegan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > LOSSAN politics have destroyed Train 761. No
> more
> > through trips from points south of L.A. in the
> > morning. Passengers arriving in L.A. at 7:03 AM
> > will no longer have a one seat ride to points
> > north. They will now wait until 9:11 AM for the
> > first train north, arriving in Santa Barbara at
> > 11:41 AM. A new train 759 will now leave L.A.
> at
> > 4:09 AM, arriving in Santa Barbara at 6:47 AM.
> > This "commuter" train will fail within a year.
> At
> > least they left 1761 alone on weekends so that
> > there's still a one seat ride in the morning,
> > arriving in Santa Barbara at 10:10 AM. If this
> is
> > what "local control" is going to do to the
> state
> > intercity rail service, perhaps the state
> should
> > start running it again ! See the LOSAAN Agenda
> > page for more details.
>
> I firmly believe that they are making this change
> based upon information obtained that would support
> their decision.

You're kidding, right ? This is pure politics by Santa Barbara County Board members and a perfect example of why the JPA's are not a good idea.
>
> What exactly is your information that would show
> it will fail and has "destroyed" train 761?

The LOSSAN Board report stated that it will result in a loss of revenue and ridership and Santa Barbara County is contributing money to make up the difference. What isn't addressed is what it will do to Train 561's ridership.

>
> Of course, you have failed to respond to past
> requests for data to back up your accusations, so
> I doubt you will provide any data this time as
> well.

This is my opinion, based on over twenty years experience in transportation planning. There won't be "data" until it fails within year or two. These are supposed to be intercity trains, not commuter trains.

This link will bring one to a comparison of the old and new schedules. It makes much clearer what will change than the difficult to understand earlier posts. I do have to agree that the earlier departure time of 4:09 a.m. from LA is too early even for arrival in Oxnard (5:58 a.m.) and Santa Barbara (6:47 a.m.) A half-hour later departure might be better for those whose work day in Santa Barbara starts at 8:00 a.m.

https://lossan.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=5817464&GUID=6F268452-5CAC-4BB6-A62F-C61EC48DEBF2



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/18 11:45 by Cumbresfan.

San Diegan wrote
> This is my opinion, based on over twenty years
> experience in transportation planning. There won't
> be "data" until it fails within year or two. These
> are supposed to be intercity trains, not commuter
> trains.

While I agree that these are intercity trains, so is the Capitol Corridor. But weekday mornings and afternoons were dominated by commuters when I rode. When trains were added at the time, it gave me options for arriving and leaving work instead of only having one real choice. California is the land of long distance commutes, and I had one of the shorter rides back then with my commuting buddies who rode from Sacramento to San Francisco every day.

Targeting a repeat customer base may help the numbers in the long run and is worth a shot. But I am surprised at their estimated loses. Guess time will tell.

Nathan

Posted from iPhone

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/18 13:04 by darkcloud.

atsf121 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When trains were added at the time, it gave
> me options for arriving and leaving work instead
> of only having one real choice.

Emphasis added. No trains are being added here; Adding a train would be a wonderful thing. Instead LOSSAN is robbing Peter to pay Paul. Taking away one train with an established ridership base, and adding a train at a different time without one. Even if they decide to add 761 back in six months or a year, those customers being run off of 761 now will have found alternatives and settled into them. That ridership base is gone and will take years to redevelop.


atsf121 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Targeting a repeat customer base may help the
> numbers in the long run and is worth a shot. But
> I am surprised at their estimated loses. Guess
> time will tell.

The train already thrives on a repeating customer base. 7:30am out of LA is a prime commuter window, much more of a prime commuter window than an arrival into Santa Barbara at 6:30am. That's why the ridership is expected to drop.

Heck! That's even too early for connects from #1! LOL!

SanDiegan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> jst3751 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SanDiegan Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > LOSSAN politics have destroyed Train 761. No
> > more
> > > through trips from points south of L.A. in
> the
> > > morning. Passengers arriving in L.A. at 7:03
> AM
> > > will no longer have a one seat ride to points
> > > north. They will now wait until 9:11 AM for
> the
> > > first train north, arriving in Santa Barbara
> at
> > > 11:41 AM. A new train 759 will now leave L.A.
> > at
> > > 4:09 AM, arriving in Santa Barbara at 6:47
> AM.
> > > This "commuter" train will fail within a
> year.
> > At
> > > least they left 1761 alone on weekends so
> that
> > > there's still a one seat ride in the morning,
> > > arriving in Santa Barbara at 10:10 AM. If
> this
> > is
> > > what "local control" is going to do to the
> > state
> > > intercity rail service, perhaps the state
> > should
> > > start running it again ! See the LOSAAN
> Agenda
> > > page for more details.
> >
> > I firmly believe that they are making this
> change
> > based upon information obtained that would
> support
> > their decision.
>
> You're kidding, right ? This is pure politics by
> Santa Barbara County Board members and a perfect
> example of why the JPA's are not a good idea.
> >
> > What exactly is your information that would
> show
> > it will fail and has "destroyed" train 761?
>
> The LOSSAN Board report stated that it will result
> in a loss of revenue and ridership and Santa
> Barbara County is contributing money to make up
> the difference. What isn't addressed is what it
> will do to Train 561's ridership.
>
> >
> > Of course, you have failed to respond to past
> > requests for data to back up your accusations,
> so
> > I doubt you will provide any data this time as
> > well.
>
> This is my opinion, based on over twenty years
> experience in transportation planning. There won't
> be "data" until it fails within year or two. These
> are supposed to be intercity trains, not commuter
> trains.

Again, all you ever do is moan and complain and post negitivity about anything on passanger trains between SLO and San Diego. Yet everything seems to keep working and moving forward.

Maybe, just maybe, try to see if the changes will have a long term postive outcome.

You have a very interesting (biased?) take on the situation, as everything I've read indicates it was a State directive to LOSSAN to implement the new service, not the other way around.

Some excerpts from the article linked below:
“I extracted a promise from the administration to make this happen.” - State Senator Hannah-Beth Jackson

"She credited Brian Kelly of Caltrans, who ironically has just moved over to run the high-speed rail project, with getting a commitment from Amtrak to change one of its Pacific Surfliner slots to an earlier commuter-friendly time."

https://www.independent.com/news/2018/feb/16/lights-turning-greener-commuter-rail/


SanDiegan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> LOSSAN politics have destroyed Train 761.... If this is
> what "local control" is going to do to the state
> intercity rail service, perhaps the state should
> start running it again ! See the LOSAAN Agenda
> page for more details.

OTG Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> atsf121 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > When trains were added at the time, it gave
> > me options for arriving and leaving work
> instead
> > of only having one real choice.
>
> Emphasis added. No trains are being added here;
> Adding a train would be a wonderful thing.
> Instead LOSSAN is robbing Peter to pay Paul.
> Taking away one train with an established
> ridership base, and adding a train at a different
> time without one. Even if they decide to add 761
> back in six months or a year, those customers
> being run off of 761 now will have found
> alternatives and settled into them. That
> ridership base is gone and will take years to
> redevelop.
>
>
> atsf121 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Targeting a repeat customer base may help the
> > numbers in the long run and is worth a shot.
> But
> > I am surprised at their estimated loses. Guess
> > time will tell.
>
> The train already thrives on a repeating customer
> base. 7:30am out of LA is a prime commuter
> window, much more of a prime commuter window than
> an arrival into Santa Barbara at 6:30am. That's
> why the ridership is expected to drop.

Thank You :-)

I guess the new Train will not stop in Northridge during the Week right?

Trains 761 and 768 are the trains that expects all Metrolink Trains going to
Northridge.

Maybe those passengers wont miss these trains?

Jerry Martin
Los Angeles, CA
Central Coast Railroad Festival