Passenger Trains > Amtrak in N Elizabeth - whose smokestack? Why 5 Signals?

Catching up on some delayed editing - is it still cool enough outside
to post a snow shot, lol?

Back on February 19th, one of the first of many late snow storms obligated
me (lol) to go out and get some shots. Here's a shot taken from the station
at North Elizabeth, NJ.

I am curious as to the details of the smokestack to the left - anyone know
whose it is (was)? No results seem to appear in a Google search - odd. Is
it just me, or is the Internet getting smaller?

Thought I heard it was from either an old mill, bakery or brewery.

/Mitch


PS: Bonus points - this was explained to me at one time, but the details escape
me. There are 4 tracks going through the station but 5 signals overhead (the
one to the far right obscured by the platform roof). Details? Does not seem
like there were ever 5 tracks through here. They all face to the north, except
the 5th on the far right, which faces south.

---

Here's a shot from the other side (southbound/ west) better illustrating the
five signals over the four track main. Does anyone know the details? And
if you are "Hotwater" and responding, let me clarify and ask instead; IF any
one has the details, can they explain? ; )

Date of this image is a few days later, February 21, 2018.

/Mitch

---

Burry Biscuit had a plant on the westbound side, behind the current Stop & Shop. It had a lead off the main.

There was an enormous insulated warehouse just north of Burry. Burned in a week-long fire back in 2010 or 2011.

Posted from Android


ETA Just a guess, but the fifth signal might be for the lead into WAVERLY / WA-5. The platform track at N Elizabeth jumps over the lead to Waverly.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/18 10:13 by Lackawanna484.

The smokestack is from the Biscuit company, now leveled.

The north-facing signal is for an eastside lead, off the local track to a small yard and other trackage north of there. The only track with any divergence in the next "block" is that track, hence the single signal.

RevRandy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The smokestack is from the Biscuit company, now
> leveled.

JUST UNREAL:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/elizabeth_fire_claims_a_storie.html

Before it was Burry Biscuit, it was a Duesenberg plant
that built the first mass produced airplane engines for
the US Government during WWI, later built automobiles
for Willy's, and before becoming a warehouse; Terry's
Candies, Vernon's Paper and before Burry's, Big Bear
Super-Market (first of the large discount supermarkets).

Hopes are to convert the area to housing and strip malls.
Maybe even a big box home improvement store! Ugh. Money
talks...

> The north-facing signal is for an eastside lead,
> off the local track to a small yard and other
> trackage north of there. The only track with any
> divergence in the next "block" is that track,
> hence the single signal.


Thanks for both responses, above and Lackawanna.

Randy - did you mean the signal facing south for
the northbound trains? The inside right north-
bound "express" track has a spur that goes under
the far right track to a yard and trackage that
seems to meander towards and through the Newark
Airport Station onto another lead to another
yard, assume that is Waverly?

/Mitch



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/18 11:15 by Mgoldman.

In days of yore, the area that's now the airport station was part of a yard serving local industries. The Bud brewery was served via this yard. I believe this was Waverly.

LANE, at the north end, was the lead into LV Oak Island and to the Passaic & Harsimus branch over to South Kearny.

Amtrak, Conrail, and NJT decimated the area which also included tracks into the Produce yard, Stock track, etc. Under Pennsy control, it was a fluid operation. Mostly.

Posted from Android

Just to clarify, there were never five tracks at this location. The "fifth" signal, as noted, is for eastward traffic on No. 1 track; the others are westbound for all four mains.

Mgoldman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> PS: Bonus points - this was explained to me at one
> time, but the details escape
> me. There are 4 tracks going through the station
> but 5 signals overhead (the
> one to the far right obscured by the platform
> roof). Details? Does not seem
> like there were ever 5 tracks through here. They
> all face to the north, except
> the 5th on the far right, which faces south.

Wild guess - leaving signal so no reduced speed for delayed an block after the station stop.

TAW

toledopatch Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just to clarify, there were never five tracks at
> this location. The "fifth" signal, as noted, is
> for eastward traffic on No. 1 track; the others
> are westbound for all four mains.


Still confused...

Which is No. 1 track - I feel like it varies from
location to location, especially at stations.

There are 4 tracks, 5 signals. One signal each
for every train heading in a southbound direction,
even on the two normally northbound tracks. Assume
the same exists elsewhere, but opposite? The fifth
signal - far right, facing south (towards northbound
traffic) is for what? A spur that might feed south-
bound traffic onto the northbound track from the far
right track or from the inside "express" track to the
right?

/Mitch

As I read the explanation offered by others, I concluded that at one point there was a lead into Waverly Yard that took off beyond this location, hence the need for a signal on Track 1 while no others were needed for the other mains. I suspect it has been retained at this location for the reason TAW cites - that it allows northward trains to leave the North Elizabeth station on signal indication rather than having to proceed at restricted speed to the next signal. I also suspect that at some point back in PRR days, all four mains were not signalled for southward movement here or anywhere else that are currently so signalled.

I do believe that I have seen other instances on this part of the NEC of one track having a signal where others do not in a fashion similar to what is shown here.

Are you suggesting that the signal was no longer needed for its
intended purpose and was re-purposed as a "signal ahead of the
signal" with the intent of speeding up traffic, or slowing it
down earlier than otherwise possible?

/Mitch

There are four tracks, each with a westward
signal. The tracks are numbered 1 to 4,
southeast to northwest. For some reason
track 1 still has an eastward signal--
I'm guessing it was there before
delay-in-block was invented. (Would
delay-in-block rule be in effect in
cab signal territory?)

The eastward signal on track 1 has always
been an automatic signal-- there haven't
been any switches between it and signal 122
for the last century or two.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/18 12:58 by timz.

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mgoldman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > PS: Bonus points - this was explained to me at
> one
> > time, but the details escape
> > me. There are 4 tracks going through the
> station
> > but 5 signals overhead (the
> > one to the far right obscured by the platform
> > roof). Details? Does not seem
> > like there were ever 5 tracks through here.
> They
> > all face to the north, except
> > the 5th on the far right, which faces south.
>
> Wild guess - leaving signal so no reduced speed
> for delayed an block after the station stop.


Brought to my attention in a side conversation - I forgot it is cab signal territory. After that, the only reason I can think of is capacity. Capacity is directly related to the time trains occupy blocks. Occupancy of the full length block would be much longer for stopping trains, so splitting the block just beyond the station would restore the capacity reduction caused by trains stopping. Still a wild guess.

TAW

There are now and always were 4 tracks here. Track one is the eastbound passenger (outside) track. Then it goes two three and four. The train in the first picture is on track three. The signal bridge is the westbound distant signal for Elmora interlocking.

Prior to the introduction of CETC tracks 1 and 4 were 251 (movement in one direction) and tracks 2 and 3 were 261 (movement in both directions). Therefore at that time this bridge had three high signal heads on it for tracks 2, 3, and 4. After CETC all four tracks are now 261 and a high signal was added to the bridge for westward movements on track 1.

With the construction of the EWR station a new track A off of track 1, and a new interlocking (Haynes) was added for the station. A new high distant signal for eastbound moves on track one was added for this construction.

So on this bridge there are four high signals for westward movements (one for each track) and one high signal for eastbound movements on track 1 for a total of five signal heads on the bridge. Track one has two back to back signals on the bridge.

So that 5th signal is the distant signal for the Haynes track 1-A switch just west of the EWR Station platform?

So the four south facing signals on that bridge are controlled out of CP Elmora and the fifth one out of CP Haynes, right?

All the signals on the bridge are numbered, automatic signals.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/20/18 15:26 by timz.

MW4man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for that excellent review of the signals!

Curious, now -

> With the construction of the EWR station a new
> track A off of track 1, and a new interlocking
> (Haynes) was added for the station. A new high
> distant signal for eastbound moves on track one
> was added for this construction.

This new high distant signal - are you referring
to the one in the photo above - farthest to the
right? If so, it appears that signal was there
in 1976, well before the Newark Airport Station
was built in 2001 (funny, looks so much older).


And... if I may kindly push further:

> So on this bridge there are four high signals for
> westward movements (one for each track) and one
> high signal for eastbound movements on track 1 for
> a total of five signal heads on the bridge. Track
> one has two back to back signals on the bridge.

It does not appear that track one has two back to
back signals on the bridge?

Simply curious, lol - gonna see this thing all the
way through! And, again, thanks so much for the
insight provided!

/Mitch

---

---

The two signals on track 1 aren't literally back to back-- you know how signals were traditionally placed right of the track centerline as viewed by the approaching train.

On the 1961 chart, tracks 1 and 2 had Signal 128. Why not Track 3? Dunno.

Just to answer your questions, which I missed earlier.

I didn't remember the eastbound high signal on track 1 as having been there prior, but my memory ain't what it used to be. The signal is the distant signal for Haynes now. Either way it is now and always was an automatic.

The new signal is the westbound high signal on track 1 is due to the change in operating rules on the track. The term "back to back" does not mean they are literally mounted on each others back it means there a are two signals at the same location for the same track in opposite directions. Signals mounted on bridges are generally offset to the right of the track they are for.


Mgoldman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MW4man Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> Thanks for that excellent review of the signals!
>
> Curious, now -
>
> > With the construction of the EWR station a new
> > track A off of track 1, and a new interlocking
> > (Haynes) was added for the station. A new high
> > distant signal for eastbound moves on track one
> > was added for this construction.
>
> This new high distant signal - are you referring
> to the one in the photo above - farthest to the
> right? If so, it appears that signal was there
> in 1976, well before the Newark Airport Station
> was built in 2001 (funny, looks so much older



> And... if I may kindly push further:
>
> > So on this bridge there are four high signals
> for
> > westward movements (one for each track) and one
> > high signal for eastbound movements on track 1
> for
> > a total of five signal heads on the bridge.
> Track
> > one has two back to back signals on the bridge.
>
> It does not appear that track one has two back to
>
> back signals on the bridge?
>
> Simply curious, lol - gonna see this thing all the
>
> way through! And, again, thanks so much for the
> insight provided!
>
> /Mitch