Passenger Trains > More on dining

The comments being made about the new dining on 48/49 and 29/30 seem to liken the proposed food to "airplane meals."

I just crossed Boston to San Francisco on JetBlue in Mint class (their top class). -- I would have preferred to use the 449/49/5 combination but I did not have the days to do that -- in Mint class I had a lie-flat seat, was served a meal in which I select three entrees from among 6 options, half hot, half cold, accompanied but a warmed roll, extra-virgin olive oil, wine of my choice, and later three flavors of gourmet ice cream The trip of 7 hours cost me about $650.

My return east (red-eye) will include options of two hot and one cold real breakfast items.

If JetBlue can provide this kind of "airplane meal" for that price I would think Amtrak, which would charge me about $1000 for a lie-flat seat can surely to better than a cold TV dinner and a cold bread breakfast.

RevRandy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The comments being made about the new dining on
> 48/49 and 29/30 seem to liken the proposed food to
> "airplane meals."
>
> I just crossed Boston to San Francisco on JetBlue
> in Mint class (their top class). -- I would have
> preferred to use the 449/49/5 combination but I
> did not have the days to do that -- in Mint class
> I had a lie-flat seat, was served a meal in which
> I select three entrees from among 6 options, half
> hot, half cold, accompanied but a warmed roll,
> extra-virgin olive oil, wine of my choice, and
> later three flavors of gourmet ice cream The trip
> of 7 hours cost me about $650.
>
> My return east (red-eye) will include options of
> two hot and one cold real breakfast items.
>
> If JetBlue can provide this kind of "airplane
> meal" for that price I would think Amtrak, which
> would charge me about $1000 for a lie-flat seat
> can surely to better than a cold TV dinner and a
> cold bread breakfast.


No kidding! Amtrak even eliminated ice cream a few years ago. Their food service needs to be farmed out to another company. All cold meals are unacceptable. Their example breakfast is a sad joke. Cold meal at lunch would probably be ok. Breakfast and dinner need better options. If the airline can do well why can’t Amtrak?

Maybe their ulterior motive is to make this so horrible, break the back and headcount of the LSAs, and then justify outsourcing the whole thing to Subway or Tim Horton's. I would very much like to see a lot more Havre Box Car lunches pop up everywhere.

Even McDonalds Big Breakfast is Good meal with Eggs, meat, hash brown, and Biscuit. or Pancakes would good from MC. I eat that meal once a week. Its alots better what start serve on June 1.

Bring back the Harvey Houses. Passenger service was better two centuries ago!

The Amtrak dining car business model is not sustainable today. Compare it to a mid-level restaurant.

You can't run a restaurant with people who are paid $70,000 in FICA wages plus good benefits. Using a 2017 AutoTrain trip as an example, five partly filled sleepers don't compute with nine upstairs diner employees and three people downstairs.

Even a relatively efficient turn around operation like AutoTrain will require five or six platoons to fully staff the diner over a year. 45 people earning $70,000 plus 30% more in benefits comes to more than $4 million in costs per year before food or booze costs.

Look at the staffing in a decent restaurant next time you visit. Likely one server for every five tables, plus one busser. A separate drinks person or captain is the exception. Tipped staff, earning $2.13 plus tips. And the restaurant doesn't put them up three nights a week.

Amtrak doesn't have the ability to easily add staff on directional runs, so it finds itself with a higher priced staff, and more of it.

And customers who bitch about a $12 hamburger and $8 beer. That's a losing bet all around.

Posted from Android

I think vending machines have a place on certain trains.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Amtrak dining car business model is not
> sustainable today. Compare it to a mid-level
> restaurant.
>
> You can't run a restaurant with people who are
> paid $70,000 in FICA wages plus good benefits.
> Using a 2017 AutoTrain trip as an example, five
> partly filled sleepers don't compute with nine
> upstairs diner employees and three people
> downstairs.
>
> Even a relatively efficient turn around operation
> like AutoTrain will require five or six platoons
> to fully staff the diner over a year. 45 people
> earning $70,000 plus 30% more in benefits comes to
> more than $4 million in costs per year before food
> or booze costs.
>
> Look at the staffing in a decent restaurant next
> time you visit. Likely one server for every five
> tables, plus one busser. A separate drinks person
> or captain is the exception. Tipped staff, earning
> $2.13 plus tips. And the restaurant doesn't put
> them up three nights a week.
>
> Amtrak doesn't have the ability to easily add
> staff on directional runs, so it finds itself with
> a higher priced staff, and more of it.
>
> And customers who bitch about a $12 hamburger and
> $8 beer. That's a losing bet all around.
>
> Posted from Android

I look at the entire train's cost recovery, not individual cars, not the food service cars. The bottom lime is all that matters. From what I hear, Autotrain's is pretty good.

They say they will save $3 Mil between the 2 trains. If it saves the Lake Shore Ltd $1.5 Mil in food service deficit, but causes $2 Mil in lost ticket revenue from coach and/or sleepers, while they have followed the letter of one section of the PRIAA law, but not the intent of the overall PRIAA law, they have shot themselves in the ass.

They are cutting the diner staff from 3 or 4 down to 1. They also could have gotten rid of all 3 coach attendants, perhaps add another Assistant Conductor position to replace them. They would still save on wages, and passengers wouldn't notice the difference.

Not disputing AutoTrain is doing well, that's why I used it as a best case.

Amtrak is responding to the directive to chop food and beverage losses. I expected to see a discount to AutoTrain passengers who forgo dinner. Cutting the dining cars to one and trimming dining car staff would drop directly to the bottom line.

Posted from Android

The breakfast on the AT is barebones as it is. On my one trip, orange juice was left out on the table and lukewarm. This was at 6:30 am, shortly after the dining car opened! The bagels also left a lot to be desired. I had honestly never seen such small bagels before. I understand the limitations on breakfast with the early arrival time, but the actual quality of the product could certainly be improved.

chrsjrcj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The breakfast on the AT is barebones as it is. On
> my one trip, orange juice was left out on the
> table and lukewarm. This was at 6:30 am, shortly
> after the dining car opened! The bagels also left
> a lot to be desired. I had honestly never seen
> such small bagels before. I understand the
> limitations on breakfast with the early arrival
> time, but the actual quality of the product could
> certainly be improved.

Yes.

I've mentioned my sister, a 20 year snowbird to NJ, and a 20 year user of the AutoTrain. After two wretched trips last year, she threw in the towel. Never again.

This year, she's flying to NJ, and shipping her car. Joining my aunt, who made a similar decision two years ago. Amtrak can't assume that AutoTrain guests are hostages, captive travelers. They aren't.

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think vending machines have a place on certain
> trains.

Yeah, bring it on! I never rode the SP trains which had the automat cars. Now I can have my chance to experience what patrons on some SP trains experienced in the 1960s. Progress!!