Passenger Trains > Metra "commuter crunch"

http://abc7chicago.com/travel/i-team-commuter-crunch/3384097/

"During busy commutes, riders of shorted trains fill the aisles, often standing for their entire ride.
According to Metra, the problem is worse during winter months, when icy conditions force them to reduce the number of cars."

"This is something that we see every winter. So the wheels themselves get defects on it," said Metra CEO and
Executive Director Jim Derwinski. "They get inspected every single day, and if the inspection reveals a problem, t
he car has to come out of service....then that train would come in with a car short."

Any TO readers know why wheels get worse during the winter?

"The I-Team asked about the car shortage on Metra's six other lines, but Metra said they do not keep track of that information.
"We don't track short trains on a daily basis," Derwinski said. "We work very hard every day to make sure that short trains get
cars put back in there."

They must keep some type of records on trains that are short cars, otherwise how would they know to put the car(s) back in?

Perhaps the last lady interviewed should be Amtrak's next president. She realizes that trains must run when the weather turns
bad. I would bet she knows more about railroads than flyboy.


Latest Metra ridership figures from their website
https://metrarail.com/sites/default/files/assets/planning/ridership/jan_2018_ridership_report_standalone.pdf

An EXCELLENT question, I,e, "Why do wheels get worse in the winter?". Does Amtrak have more "wheel issues" in winter? Do freight railroads have drastically increased wheel issues in winter?

I can see flat wheels from slip-slide in November, than haven't the ability to catch up until winter ends.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> I can see flat wheels from slip-slide in November,
> than haven't the ability to catch up until winter
> ends.

Why would there be "flat wheels from slip-slide in November"? What with the modern braking systems on today's passenger equipment, I find it hard to believe there would be THAT many "wheel defects", no mater whether it was winter or not. Maybe a follow-up to Jason Knowles for him to ask specifically just what all those "wheel defects" are, and what does winter have to do with them? Sure sounds like the CEO of METRA is blowing just a bit of smoke up the ABC I-Team's rear end.

Yes, there really are Metra trains with such high passenger loads that could easily fill two A380 aircraft.

The hot set up during rush hour and/or heavy snow on the BNSF is sitting on the stairwell heading up on either side of the car. When escaping the big windy, I usually opt for the "get the hell out of Dodge" 2;28 Nonstop to Downers Grove Main. Carrying with me, a Chicago Sun Times to sit on and a cold Bud Light, I'm a happy guy.

NYC4096 Wrote:
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> Yes, there really are Metra trains with such high
> passenger loads that could easily fill two A380
> aircraft.
>
> The hot set up during rush hour and/or heavy snow
> on the BNSF is sitting on the stairwell heading up
> on either side of the car. When escaping the big
> windy, I usually opt for the "get the hell out of
> Dodge" 2;28 Nonstop to Downers Grove Main.
> Carrying with me, a Chicago Sun Times to sit on
> and a cold Bud Light, I'm a happy guy.

Nothing has changed since the 60s except that folks used to sit on the top step of the open traps on the heavyweight cars. At least the steps are enclosed now.

TAW

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why would there be "flat wheels from slip-slide in
> November"? What with the modern braking systems on
> today's passenger equipment, I find it hard to
> believe there would be THAT many "wheel defects",
> no mater whether it was winter or not.

Come ride our commuter east coast trains in late autumn, both loco-hauled and EMU's in the east, and see for yourself.
Consists are reduced due to backlog in getting to the wheel lathes, despite computer-assisted brakes and gel squirted onto the rails.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/18 10:05 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Why would there be "flat wheels from slip-slide
> in
> > November"? What with the modern braking systems
> on
> > today's passenger equipment, I find it hard to
> > believe there would be THAT many "wheel
> defects",
> > no mater whether it was winter or not.
>
> Come ride our commuter trains in late autumn, both
> loco-hauled and EMU's in the east, and see for
> yourself.
> Consists are reduced due to backlog in getting to
> the wheel lathes, despite computer-assisted brakes
> and gel squirted onto the rails.


Sorry but, any attempt to compare commuter operations throughout the Chicago area (METRA) with ANY of the operations "in the east" would be comparing apples to grapes!

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > HotWater Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Why would there be "flat wheels from
> slip-slide
> > in
> > > November"? What with the modern braking
> systems
> > on
> > > today's passenger equipment, I find it hard
> to
> > > believe there would be THAT many "wheel
> > defects",
> > > no mater whether it was winter or not.
> >
> > Come ride our commuter trains in late autumn,
> both
> > loco-hauled and EMU's in the east, and see for
> > yourself.
> > Consists are reduced due to backlog in getting
> to
> > the wheel lathes, despite computer-assisted
> brakes
> > and gel squirted onto the rails.
>
>
> Sorry but, any attempt to compare commuter
> operations throughout the Chicago area (METRA)
> with ANY of the operations "in the east" would be
> comparing apples to grapes!

No it's not. You have trains stopping every 2 miles and wet leaves just like we do.
(BTW, we have Gallery cars in DC).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/18 10:07 by joemvcnj.

Overall Metra runs one fine operation. Their on time record, equipment cleanliness and safety record are second to none. And, their ability to maintain and upgrade equipment that's mostly well beyond its designed service life is to be commended.

Metra is the way to run a railroad.

IMHO-Ross Rowland

I agree 100% with Ross. I've ridden many commuter operations around the country, and while many of the newer ones are nice enough, it is hard to beat Metra, especially considering the shear volume of passengers it moves and the complexity of the network it operates over.

I don't know exactly what the alleged wheel problem might be. I do know that winter is never kind to various systems on Metra cars and locomotives. This past winter, despite it's relative mildness, appeared to take its toll on the fleet from what I could see on the BNSF line. There were numerous times that my train was short a car (or on one occasion, two). There were also numerous cancellations of trains due to various reasons. It's been better the last month even though winter hung around until late last week.

Several of my coworkers commute from Aurora, Rt 59 and Naperville. Even on a normal day, trains leaving Naperville are standing room only on most weekdays. I see the trains heading to Naperville SRO as they leave Union Station. Take away one car and it's not good. Have a whole train out of commission and the whole rush hour can be shot.

There's a reason Metra has been buying back cars it sold to VRE, it's about their only option to enlarge the fleet.

HotWater Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> An EXCELLENT question, I,e, "Why do wheels get
> worse in the winter?". Does Amtrak have more
> "wheel issues" in winter? Do freight railroads
> have drastically increased wheel issues in winter?

I can't speak for Amtrak or freight railroads, but one of the reasons Metra has more "wheel issues" in winter is that in certain weather conditions the brakes are never fully released. This is done to keep things warm and prevent ice buildup on the brake shoes. Imagine coming up to the bumping post, taking your normal air and nothing happens. Plug it and still nothing. That's what ice will do (I've seen the results personally). Dragging the brakes keeps the ice away, but wears the wheel tread much faster.

metra6924 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > An EXCELLENT question, I,e, "Why do wheels get
> > worse in the winter?". Does Amtrak have more
> > "wheel issues" in winter? Do freight railroads
> > have drastically increased wheel issues in
> winter?
>
> I can't speak for Amtrak or freight railroads, but
> one of the reasons Metra has more "wheel issues"
> in winter is that in certain weather conditions
> the brakes are never fully released. This is done
> to keep things warm and prevent ice buildup on the
> brake shoes. Imagine coming up to the bumping
> post, taking your normal air and nothing happens.
> Plug it and still nothing. That's what ice will
> do (I've seen the results personally). Dragging
> the brakes keeps the ice away, but wears the wheel
> tread much faster.


Thank you! THAT is a VERY logical explanation, and makes perfect sense.

metra6924 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> HotWater Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > An EXCELLENT question, I,e, "Why do wheels get
> > worse in the winter?". Does Amtrak have more
> > "wheel issues" in winter? Do freight railroads
> > have drastically increased wheel issues in
> winter?
>
> I can't speak for Amtrak or freight railroads, but
> one of the reasons Metra has more "wheel issues"
> in winter is that in certain weather conditions
> the brakes are never fully released. This is done
> to keep things warm and prevent ice buildup on the
> brake shoes. Imagine coming up to the bumping
> post, taking your normal air and nothing happens.
> Plug it and still nothing. That's what ice will
> do (I've seen the results personally). Dragging
> the brakes keeps the ice away, but wears the wheel
> tread much faster.

Well.l.l.l--up to a point, correct. But, while your statement that "dragging the brakes keeps the ice away, but wears the wheel tread much faster" is correct as it stands, it's not correct for Metra. AFAIK, most (if not all) Metra cars with on-tread brakes are fitted with a "snow brake" feature, which, while it does keep the ice and snow from building up between the wheel tread and brake shoe, only causes minimal tread wear, and actually tends to keep the wheel tread "trued up", thus minimizing wheel problems, not worsening them. A properly set up Snow Brake will keep only enough pressure in the brake cylinders to overcome the brake cylinder return spring force and the brake rigging friction (usually 4 to 7 psi, depending on the type of tread brake unit or cylinder+rigging used), thus keeping the brake shoe lightly pressed on the wheel. This force is only enough to raise the temperature by a few degrees, but the fact that the shoe is touching the wheel tread at all times prevents moisture/snow/ice from getting between the shoe and the wheel in the first place. The force is nowhere near great enough to cause high wheel wear. Long before you heard complaints about wheel wear, you would get screams about brake shoe life being much too short in the winter months (remember, brake shoes wear a lot faster than wheels).

What I wonder about is what proportion of Metra cars have disc brakes, as opposed to dual brakes (tread+disc) or tread-only. "Back in the day", I remember that C&NW gallery cars and IC Highliners (gallery EMUs) had on-tread composition brake shoes, while CB&Q Budd-built gallery cars were fitted with Budd disc brakes; now, being seriously afflicted with "CRS syndrome", I can't remember what arrangement the Sumitomo gallery cars have, even though I did some work on the project for those cars before they were built. Anyway, because of the friction characteristics of disc brake linings, discs are more likely to cause "mini-slips" or wheel pickups that in turn cause tiny flat spots that later develop into spalling or worse; it would be interesting to see if Metra's records break down the incidence of wheel problems relative to the type of braking used (note that this is a very summary description of the situation; to get into an in-depth explanation would take several very boring pages!).

Roger Lewis (airbrakegeezer) (I guess I should also note: NO relation to the late Roger D. Lewis of Amtrak infamy!)

Mr. Lewis,

An EXCELLENT technical explanation, and thank you very much for taking the time.

As a result of Mr. Lewis' explanation, above, I will ask my question AGAIN, i.e. why is the winter weather conditions so much harder on METRA wheels, as compared to any other time of the year? Also, just exactly what are the alleged "wheel defects" that the CEO is claiming are more frequent/pronounced in the winter?

> Well.l.l.l--up to a point, correct. But, while
> your statement that "dragging the brakes keeps the
> ice away, but wears the wheel tread much faster"
> is correct as it stands, it's not correct for
> Metra. AFAIK, most (if not all) Metra cars with
> on-tread brakes are fitted with a "snow brake"
> feature, which, while it does keep the ice and
> snow from building up between the wheel tread and
> brake shoe, only causes minimal tread wear, and
> actually tends to keep the wheel tread "trued up",
> thus minimizing wheel problems, not worsening
> them. A properly set up Snow Brake will keep only
> enough pressure in the brake cylinders to overcome
> the brake cylinder return spring force and the
> brake rigging friction (usually 4 to 7 psi,
> depending on the type of tread brake unit or
> cylinder+rigging used), thus keeping the brake
> shoe lightly pressed on the wheel. This force is
> only enough to raise the temperature by a few
> degrees, but the fact that the shoe is touching
> the wheel tread at all times prevents
> moisture/snow/ice from getting between the shoe
> and the wheel in the first place. The force is
> nowhere near great enough to cause high wheel
> wear. Long before you heard complaints about wheel
> wear, you would get screams about brake shoe life
> being much too short in the winter months
> (remember, brake shoes wear a lot faster than
> wheels).
>
> What I wonder about is what proportion of Metra
> cars have disc brakes, as opposed to dual brakes
> (tread+disc) or tread-only. "Back in the day", I
> remember that C&NW gallery cars and IC Highliners
> (gallery EMUs) had on-tread composition brake
> shoes, while CB&Q Budd-built gallery cars were
> fitted with Budd disc brakes; now, being seriously
> afflicted with "CRS syndrome", I can't remember
> what arrangement the Sumitomo gallery cars have,
> even though I did some work on the project for
> those cars before they were built. Anyway, because
> of the friction characteristics of disc brake
> linings, discs are more likely to cause
> "mini-slips" or wheel pickups that in turn cause
> tiny flat spots that later develop into spalling
> or worse; it would be interesting to see if
> Metra's records break down the incidence of wheel
> problems relative to the type of braking used
> (note that this is a very summary description of
> the situation; to get into an in-depth explanation
> would take several very boring pages!).
>



Only the Metra EMUs (HL2s) have snow brakes. The new HL2s are also equipped with regenerative braking. None of the diesel hauled coaches have disc brakes or snow brakes.

We change brakes shoes much more frequently in the winter under less than perfect conditions. The wheels wear much faster because we do "drag" the brakes and we do our best to keep up, but with only two wheel lathes, one at Western Avenue and one at Blue Island, it can be difficult to keep up with demand.

This applies only to the Metra owned and operated lines. I cannot speak for BNSF or UP maintenance practices.

Full disclosure: While I work in the Engineering Department, I do interact with employees in the Mechanical and Transportation departments.

Tim Pitzen
Roadway Engineer
Metra Engineering Department

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---

---

Also, very interesting. However, I ask again, and again, just what are all the alleged wheel defects reported by the CEO of METRA, that seem to occur only in the winter?

Tim-
Thanks for the explanation of the wheel issues. This agrees with what I've heard from crews during my commute.

Hotwater, you certainly are relentless in your quest for knowledge.

I'll try to explain further. Equipment sets make multiple runs on any given day. Some may make 6 runs before going to the yard for inspection and service. I'll try a hypothetical example: Equipment leaves Joliet for Chicago making all stops, including the Beverly Branch. That's 23 station stops each run. Maximum authorized speed is 79mph on the main line, 30mph on the Sub. With the schedule, you try for MAS between stations and make a full service application coming into the stations. These aren't excursion trains with a loose schedule, more like drag racing between stoplights. You're using the brakes often, with heavy applications. A little frost on the rails can get the wheels sliding and there's nothing you can do about it. With the loco leading, it takes care of the frost at times. With the cab car leading, the wheels can lock and slide.

When I was out with the folks from TTCI (Google it), measuring coefficient of friction of rails in order to develop braking algorithms for PTC, on a cold March day we found just that. The temperature was 21 degrees, 87% humidity and a balmy 20mph breeze but no snow. It was early morning, so the rails were nice and cold, lower than current ambient temperature. The first run with the tribometer yielded unacceptable results due to the thin and invisible layer of frost on the rails. After a train had passed we tried again and got acceptable measurements.

So you're running an inbound rush hour train, cab car leading, trying to keep the schedule. You can't see the frost on the rails. You make your regular application at the usual spot for a station stop. The cab car wheels slide and you get flat spots. The equipment still needs to make its runs. The defect may not be FRA condemnable so the equipment goes out for another run. A few more runs and a few more slides and now the wheels are condemnable. There aren't any spare cars, so the defective car is cut from the consist. Remember, this equipment set serves several trains so now there are multiple trains short a car.

Add some snow and the need to drag the brakes to prevent ice buildup and you have a great scenario for accelerated wheel wear.

And if you need further explanation, you might consider visiting Chicago in December or January to see for yourself.

Tim