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Passenger Trains > No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains


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Date: 06/12/18 13:33
No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: GenePoon

"...The occupancy of observation decks and open platforms of any
Private Rail Car is prohibited while moving."

-Amtrak Private Car Safety Manual, Page 6



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/18 14:32 by GenePoon.




Date: 06/12/18 13:40
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: andersonb109

What will be next???? No open vestibule on PV's? How is this any of their business? They don't own the cars. I would think liability would be on the part of the individual car owner. So what's the point of even having an open platform car? Year ago, even regular passenger cars had open cars. Did anyone ever fall out or die? Even recently on the Royal Canadian Pacific, many of their beautiful business cars had open platforms that we were free to occupy while traveling on the CPR main line. Other trains that come to mind with open platform cars: Rovos Rail, Royal Scotsman, Eastern & Oriental Express, Rocky Mountaineer...and probably some others I'm not remembering. Amtrak truly is taking the joy out of rail travel. No domes, no open platforms, no cooked food (or no actual food at all).



Date: 06/12/18 13:59
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: GenePoon

The prohibition is also on PAGE FOUR of the same document.




Date: 06/12/18 14:12
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: mundo

Is this something NEW or what has just been discovered and posted.



Date: 06/12/18 14:13
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: njmidland

That should drop the value of open platform cars on the market even more.



Date: 06/12/18 14:23
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: kevink

mundo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is this something NEW or what has just been
> discovered and posted.


And is it from Amtrak? It reads like it was written by an organization representing private car owners.



Date: 06/12/18 14:34
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: GenePoon

No date on the document...

Here is the cover page (not a private car in sight on the photo, but
who cares, anyway?)




Date: 06/12/18 14:46
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: wigwag

Whats next? Are they going to demand every private car that rides Amtrak trains be wearing Amtraks colors?



Date: 06/12/18 14:48
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: bobs

It is from Amtrak, but appears to be based on the AAPRCO safety manual, which is in turn based on the RPCA manual. And so far, it is just a draft that was presented to AAPRCO, but like other draconian measures dropped from above, it won't matter much what feedback AAPRCO provides to Amtrak about this proposal.



Date: 06/12/18 14:50
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: choodude

wigwag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whats next? Are they going to demand every private
> car that rides Amtrak trains be wearing Amtraks
> colors?


Umm, didn't that already happen back in the 1970's?


Brian



Date: 06/12/18 15:07
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: aronco

The rules quoted were apparently sent to AAPRCO and RPCA for comment. They are NOT in effect yet. Those organizations and others are actively pressing Amtrak to back off on imposing these rules, because there have been almost no reported injuries in the past few years by passengers on private cars. IN short, these rules are not needed, but perhaps intended to accomplish a bigger purpose.....

Norm

Norman Orfall
Helendale, CA
TIOGA PASS, a private railcar



Date: 06/12/18 16:06
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: 4489

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What will be next???? No open vestibule on PV's?
> How is this any of their business? They don't own
> the cars. I would think liability would be on the
> part of the individual car owner. So what's the
> point of even having an open platform car? Year
> ago, even regular passenger cars had open cars.
> Did anyone ever fall out or die? Even recently on
> the Royal Canadian Pacific, many of their
> beautiful business cars had open platforms that we
> were free to occupy while traveling on the CPR
> main line. Other trains that come to mind with
> open platform cars: Rovos Rail, Royal Scotsman,
> Eastern & Oriental Express, Rocky
> Mountaineer...and probably some others I'm not
> remembering. Amtrak truly is taking the joy out of
> rail travel. No domes, no open platforms, no
> cooked food (or no actual food at all).


Missed out the line that states everyone riding in these cars will be required to wear hi-viz clothing....................



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/18 16:07 by 4489.



Date: 06/12/18 16:09
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: ClubCar

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wigwag Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Whats next? Are they going to demand every
> private
> > car that rides Amtrak trains be wearing Amtraks
> > colors?
>
>
> Umm, didn't that already happen back in the
> 1970's?
>
Brian

Yes that was the rule for awhile until the Class One Railroads objected to it since they were often attaching their own private office cars on the back of Amtrak trains and in the fact that they owned the individual railroads. But they could make it a rule now for the non-class one roads, which would mean painting them red, white, & blue. I hope this does not happen. I've attached a photo of a passenger car that was privately owned back in 1977 from Railroad Passenger Cars (RRP) when Amtrak did want private cars to be painted in their colors.

John in White Marsh, Maryland



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/18 16:11 by ClubCar.




Date: 06/12/18 16:17
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: GenePoon

aronco Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The rules quoted were apparently sent to AAPRCO
> and RPCA for comment. They are NOT in effect yet.
> Those organizations and others are actively
> pressing Amtrak to back off on imposing these
> rules, because there have been almost no reported
> injuries in the past few years by passengers on
> private cars. IN short, these rules are not
> needed, but perhaps intended to accomplish a
> bigger purpose.....
>
> Norm
==========================================


THANK YOU, Norm. I was sent the document without that explanation.

The bigger purpose...now, there is something to fear.

Private car owners already have to carry a lot of insurance.
It runs into the millions per occurence, and I understand that the
conditions of contract also indemnify the host railroads and Amtrak
against all claims, regardless of who is at fault. Undoubtedly the
insurance underwriters weighed the risk of occupied open platforms and
wrote the policies and assessed the premiums accordingly.

This looks like yet another strategy by Airline Boy to make private
car moves impractical, unfeasable and expensive...to discourage them.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/18 16:17 by GenePoon.



Date: 06/12/18 16:45
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: ALCO630

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wigwag Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Whats next? Are they going to demand every
> private
> > car that rides Amtrak trains be wearing Amtraks
> > colors?
>
>
> Umm, didn't that already happen back in the
> 1970's?
>
>
> Brian

Penn Central had business cars painted in Amtrak colors. They even had the pointless arrows.

Posted from Android

Doug Wetherhold
Allentown, PA



Date: 06/12/18 17:49
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: RevRandy

On the inaugural run of the Lake Shore Limited (it ran east-bound from Chicago to Boston), I rode the AMTRAK open rear platform for many a mile, joined by many AMTRAK executives. (and that was before retention toilets ... just saying)



Date: 06/12/18 18:15
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: exprail

I read this information with interest and a bit of disappointment having ridden many private cars at the end of trains usually as a railroad supervisor. This definitely, is a fun place to ride but a very dangerous one ... which is why most railroad owned passenger equipment have the sheet of glass, rear car for inspection purposes. Maybe an example from decades ago will provide some background.

In the late 70s I was a young rules/safety officer for a well known and well maintained, midwest railroad. Because we had few young officers in the company and knowing my interest in railroads outside of working hours I was asked to escourt the first private car to travel this road since the 50s over a couple of divisions. I was excited and looked forward to riding a splendid, private car behind the caboose of a 100 + car mixed freight on a Sunday but was reminded that there were to be no relaxation, of safety/operating rules standards on this trip. We left fairly early on that cool (fall?) morning and I immediately realized that many people were enjoying the open platform of the car where I joined them. They were a happy bunch enjoying the ride and sharing stories but I soon realized why many were a bit too "happy" as they were drinking screw drivers and beginning to lose stability on the gently, rocking/rolling platform. One person, in particular was riding on the handrails of the car balancing himself with the slack of the train but losing the battle. He insisted on remaining on the railing and platform but I escourted him back into the car for safety only to find the car owner indignant that the "imbiber" couldn't return to the platform until he was sober ... and safe. I then was was given a bit of a "chilly" response by many of the other riders and I soon knew that movements of this type would require special attention to insure no one got hurt. I truly, enjoyed the ride but had to report to upper management that incident which probably led to no more private cars on freights.

Later when working for a major, regional railroad we handled many private cars and excursions and while we all had a good time it was a constant challenge to insure passengers and the public stayed safe. I know the general, public has very little respect for railroad safety but maybe car owners need to find a happy medium between providing a wonderful trip for their passengers and insisting on strict, safety standards? Maybe they have. Maybe this rule of not riding on an open platform makes sense and maybe it will allow private cars to continue to travel on Amtrak.

exprail



Date: 06/12/18 18:58
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: tw

"Even recently on the Royal Canadian Pacific, many of their beautiful business cars had open platforms that we were free to occupy while traveling on the CPR main line."

FYI, CPR has added an extension to the railings on all their open platform cars, increasing the height by a little over a foot.



Date: 06/12/18 19:29
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: darkcloud

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/18 10:26 by darkcloud.



Date: 06/12/18 20:22
Re: No open platform riding on private cars in Amtrak trains
Author: TBoneTowser

Could this be a reason why




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