Passenger Trains > Amtrak June 19 Presentation - Buses may replace SWChief, DDG-ABQ

This just in:

From: Evan Stair <EvanStair@PassengerRailOK.org>
Date: June 21, 2018 at 10:30:22 PM CDT

Subject: Amtrak June 19 Presentation to Congress -
Buses may replace Southwest Chief Dodge City to Albuquerque

All,

The attached file shows Amtrak’s plan, as presented to the Kansas,
Colorado, and New Mexico Congressional contingent on Tuesday, to use
substitute bus services between Dodge City (possibly La Junta) to
Albuquerque on the Southwest Chief route. I have not received any
feedback regarding how the US Senators and US Representatives present
reacted to this presentation. Hopefully, someone in one of these
states will communicate directly with an attendee to gauge the
reaction and share this with all of us.


I suspect substitute bus service would be implemented after
the Positive Train Control (PTC) mandate date of December 31 of
this year. The effect of this would be damaging, not only to
those cities that would lose rail service, but to all Southwest
Chief cities. Slicing a route into three different segments,
two rail, one a bus, will destroy travel continuity for this
route. Understand, ridership drops substantially (I understand
by half) with every transfer. So we are really discussing
long-term the discontinuance of service. The towns that could
lose rail service initially include:

-Garden City
-Lamar
-La Junta
-Trinidad
-Raton
-Las Vegas
-Lamy


Further, Amtrak seems to have attempted to load the Congressional
contingent with statistics that in some cases are deceiving, others
confusing, and some irrelevant. For example, the capital expense
costs to establish multiple frequency services between say Chicago
and Kansas City or Los Angeles and Flagstaff/Grand Canyon are well
beyond the ability of a state compact to fund. Further, Amtrak’s
claim of poverty here flies in the face of the $1.3 billion, a
record amount appropriated by Congress, for operation of the national
system this year.

Most of all, as former Amtrak CEO Joseph Boardman said, Amtrak
is attempting to weaponize Positive Train Control (PTC), a collision
avoidance system. Simply put, there are mitigations and possible
waivers Amtrak is refusing to consider, that could keep the full
train route running.

My recommendation is that everyone here contact your Congressmen.
Ask them how the June 19 meeting was received and if they plan to
take any action to prevent the bus substitution from occurring.
If you would like to discuss this further feel free to call me.

Thank you for your support,
Evan Stair
President
Passenger Rail Kansas
Passenger Rail Oklahoma

LINK TO DOCUMENT:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/397rbtfluu9uifp/Dismantling-National-System-Trains-3-4.pdf?dl=0

After convincing three heartland states and the federal DOT to pony up millions, I'm in disbelief that Amtrak would threaten to cancel the train. This goes beyond snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, this is America's Railroad acting as a bad faith partner.

If the states and federal government involved wanted a bus, they wouldn't have paid extra for the train.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/18 23:48 by TWC.

I agree this proposal is so dumb it really gives more reason that Propeller Head needs to go, he's making Amtrak one travel option nobody wants to use and that sucks!

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/18 19:21 by ProAmtrak.

TWC Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> After convincing three heartland states and the
> federal DOT to pony up millions, I'm in disbelief
> that Amtrak would threaten to cancel the train.
> This goes beyond snatching defeat from the jaws of
> victory, this is America's Railroad acting as a
> bad faith partner.
>
> If the states and federal government involved
> wanted a bus, they wouldn't have paid extra for
> the train.

The funding deal was never a complete deal.

I am not sure if the state of Kansas really gives a damn, and it sure looks the state New Mexico could care less (after self impaling itself on Rail Runner).

If the SWC gets busted up this way, none of the parts are viable.

It's part of the national system since day 1. Amtrak should fund it until Congress tells them not to.

.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/18 10:32 by darkcloud.

Well, if this bustitution does come to pass, my wife (and probably many others) will just say the heck with Amtrak for west to east travel. When she takes me to the local LA Metro station to catch the Gold Line to LA Union Station where I'll board the late-night Ambus to Bakersfield, she'll wish me safe travels, and enjoy sniffing cable car smoke in San Francisco, but until they bring back passenger service around the Tehachapi Loop, or we want to take the Coast Starlite, she'll leave the bus riding to me.

Losses per train are undoubtedly based on Fully Allocated Cost, not Avoidable cost
Loss per rider means nothing. Loss per passenger MILE or farebox recover are meaningful measures of efficiency.

What happen to Railrunner on 12/31 if not PTC compliant ?
If they shut down, that portion could be made exempt from PTC since operations of trains 3 & 4 alone would not need it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/18 07:33 by joemvcnj.

Be sure and check the link and imagine if these guys used the same statistical schema on the national highway system ( Montana very few cars per hour vs I-5, massive loss per traveler, giant maintenance costs in future. People could still travel even if the road was no longer paved). Don't restate the "gas tax pays all the road cost fallacy".

I love "dedicated, HIGH QUALITY, Amtrak-chartered bus service". Who says you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear? Biz Speak is an amazing language.

Cow manure would be an "amazing new dining experience" for most of us.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/18 06:31 by mt-king.

If they are not going to allow travel on non-PTC routes in NM, they won't get to ABQ. The segment from Dalies to Isleta (used only by Amtrak) won't have it, nor the segment from Isleta to ABQ which is shared by Amtrak, Rail Runner and BNSF. Maybe they'll route it to Belen and use the old Harvey House for a station (Yea, BNSF would love that as it would block their west bound fuel racks), or drop them off at the Belen Rail Runner station (after a reverse move through the Belen yard to the Rail Runner station).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/18 06:50 by Cumbresfan.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> What happen to Railrunner on 12/31 if not PTC
> compliant ?
> If they shut down, that portion could be made
> exempt from PTC since operations of trains 3 & 4
> alone would not need it.

I read on Trains Newswire that the Rail Runner is going to install ATS until they get PTC running sometime around November 1, 2020!

If that works, or gets them an FRA waiver, then there is no need to bust up trains 3 & 4. PTC is no longer valid excuse.

Call your reps even if your not in an affectected state. Congress allotted money for a national system of trains not buses.

As an old Amtrak employee, railfan, City & State government employee and Aviation industry staffer, I can only say this is a well timed attack on the Chief. Anderson was put off by the rail passenger lobbyists who demanded more public scrutiny and accountability to the Amtrak Board. Well we got it. Now Dick Dearborn is on the board and the reformation of Amtrak can continue, with Board approval. To make this post short and to the point, Amtrak and Anderson would not have unveiled this plan if they did not intend to carry it through. They will not let it languish for fear of more bad press. I do not see it as a trial balloon or as a threat to get action. I predict this new innovation, safety improvement and adjustment to travel service will take place within the next 30 days - faster than the time allowed to adjust to the Lake Shore's recent service innovations. I certainly hope that my prediction is off.

Once Raton Pass is torn up, it ain't ever coming back, folks... === === = === JLH

Hou74-76 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As an old Amtrak employee, railfan, City & State
> government employee and Aviation industry staffer,
> I can only say this is a well timed attack on the
> Chief. Anderson was put off by the rail passenger
> lobbyists who demanded more public scrutiny and
> accountability to the Amtrak Board. Well we got
> it. Now Dick Dearborn is on the board and the
> reformation of Amtrak can continue, with Board
> approval. To make this post short and to the
> point, Amtrak and Anderson would not have unveiled
> this plan if they did not intend to carry it
> through. They will not let it languish for fear
> of more bad press. I do not see it as a trial
> balloon or as a threat to get action. I predict
> this new innovation, safety improvement and
> adjustment to travel service will take place
> within the next 30 days - faster than the time
> allowed to adjust to the Lake Shore's recent
> service innovations. I certainly hope that my
> prediction is off.

I think in this case he still has to comply with the 120 day notice. He probably will do that at the beginning of July. Really what it comes down to is whether the Raton line should remain in existence. New Mexico cannot afford it on its own. Does the rest of the country pick up the tab?

We'll probably get to save one transcon, so pick which one.

This is terrible news. We can expect that other LDT's will get the same treatment. No way I will ever ride a F___ bus. NARP has to get busy on this right away. I will be writing to my congressional representatives. This is typical of the way private sector business thinks, which has no place in passenger railroading. I am riding 3 and 4 this summer. I already have my tickets in sleeper cars.


GenePoon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This just in:
>
> From: Evan Stair
> Date: June 21, 2018 at 10:30:22 PM CDT
>
> Subject: Amtrak June 19 Presentation to
> Congress -
> Buses may replace Southwest Chief Dodge City
> to Albuquerque
>
> All,
>
> The attached file shows Amtrak’s plan, as
> presented to the Kansas,
> Colorado, and New Mexico Congressional contingent
> on Tuesday, to use
> substitute bus services between Dodge City
> (possibly La Junta) to
> Albuquerque on the Southwest Chief route. I have
> not received any
> feedback regarding how the US Senators and US
> Representatives present
> reacted to this presentation. Hopefully, someone
> in one of these
> states will communicate directly with an attendee
> to gauge the
> reaction and share this with all of us.
>
>
> I suspect substitute bus service would be
> implemented after
> the Positive Train Control (PTC) mandate date of
> December 31 of
> this year. The effect of this would be damaging,
> not only to
> those cities that would lose rail service, but to
> all Southwest
> Chief cities. Slicing a route into three
> different segments,
> two rail, one a bus, will destroy travel
> continuity for this
> route. Understand, ridership drops substantially
> (I understand
> by half) with every transfer. So we are really
> discussing
> long-term the discontinuance of service. The
> towns that could
> lose rail service initially include:
>
> -Garden City
> -Lamar
> -La Junta
> -Trinidad
> -Raton
> -Las Vegas
> -Lamy
>
>
> Further, Amtrak seems to have attempted to
> load the Congressional
> contingent with statistics that in some cases are
> deceiving, others
> confusing, and some irrelevant. For example, the
> capital expense
> costs to establish multiple frequency services
> between say Chicago
> and Kansas City or Los Angeles and Flagstaff/Grand
> Canyon are well
> beyond the ability of a state compact to fund.
> Further, Amtrak’s
> claim of poverty here flies in the face of the
> $1.3 billion, a
> record amount appropriated by Congress, for
> operation of the national
> system this year.
>
> Most of all, as former Amtrak CEO Joseph
> Boardman said, Amtrak
> is attempting to weaponize Positive Train Control
> (PTC), a collision
> avoidance system. Simply put, there are
> mitigations and possible
> waivers Amtrak is refusing to consider, that could
> keep the full
> train route running.
>
> My recommendation is that everyone here
> contact your Congressmen.
> Ask them how the June 19 meeting was received and
> if they plan to
> take any action to prevent the bus substitution
> from occurring.
> If you would like to discuss this further feel
> free to call me.
>
> Thank you for your support,
> Evan Stair
> President
> Passenger Rail Kansas
> Passenger Rail Oklahoma
>
> LINK TO DOCUMENT:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/397rbtfluu9uifp/Dismantl
> ing-National-System-Trains-3-4.pdf?dl=0

Let’s say there is a rural US numbered highway, one that only sees less than 1,000 cars average, per day. Now let’s say it needs to be re-paved. Is there endless debate on its value? Is it ever suggested that the highway be abandoned, and anyone unfortunate enough to live along the road be forced to detour, or drive on an unpaved road?

No there isn’t...

The line in question needs to be “re-paved”. It is an asset to both local, and national interests...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/18 08:27 by ats90mph.

The numbers, charts, graphs and colors in Anderson's report tell the story. 3/4 ridership in the great middle-earth between Lamy, NM and Lawrence, KS is an underutilized operating moneypit with huge ROW maintenance and capital costs and poor on-time performance. Might as well cut losses and improve service by running a few AmBuses or AmVans for the few riders that need the middle earth service.

ats90mph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Let’s say there is a rural US numbered highway,
> one that only sees less than 1,000 cars average,
> per day. Now let’s say it needs to be re-paved.
> Is there endless debate on its value? Is it ever
> suggested that the highway be abandoned, and
> anyone unfortunate enough to live along the road
> be forced to detour, or drive on an unpaved road?

Please identify any U.S.-numbered highway that is so lightly used. The only ones I can think of would be the ones across the Rocky Mountains, during the period of winter when they're simply closed to avoid costly winter maintenance.

Making spurious arguments does not help the case for keeping these trains.