Passenger Trains > What would you do at Amtrak?

If Anderson were to be replaced, by someone else (lets say you), What would you do?

My tasks would be: (in Order)

•    Add/replace power (locomotives)
•    Restore PV moves
•    Add/replace passenger equipment (Cars)
•    Restore Charter trains
•    Track improvements-(small projects-maintenance)   
•    Restore Pacific Parlour Cars
•    Add capacity to existing lines (Longer Trains)
•    Restore Dining Cars Service
•    Restore Customer Service (at stations)to previous levels
•    Track improvement (major projects- sidings/ double track)
•    Station improvements
•    Restore routes (Sunset, Pioneer)
•    Add new routes

What do you think? I lean towards long distance trains, but I'm sure that there are some NEC items that should be added to the list.
   

Nice list, but with no money it ain't gonna happen.
Item number one needs to be get a stable funding source.

My one objective would be to hammer Congress and the White House to create and fund a Passenger Rail Trust Fund, just like the Airlines and Highways have.

Once that is in place, all the goodies listed in the first posting here would have FUNDING AND LEVERAGE. After that, this board (and many others) would have some really serious issues to kick around, not the least of which would be a real National network, not the anemic skeleton Amtrak provides today.

Mr. Hall, Amtrak has PLENTY of money.  Billions.  But they choose not to spend it in ways which encourage rail ridership and growth and service.  

What Amtrak does not have is VISION.  If Amtrak truly proposed a 20 year plan to bring rail passenger service to ALL the nation, it would be warmly embraced by Congress.  Plenty of money would be forthcoming.  

It is not the cost of an Amtrak hamburger that is at issue.  Nor wages paid to employees.  Nor unmanned stations, such as Cincinnati.  These are merely symptoms of the disease.  

They need vision and good everyday management; they need a quality product that is 95% on time with courteous employees; they need a future plan which recognizes that new equipment is a five year struggle; that pays for and increases operating capacity in congested freight areas; they need high quality equipment maintenance of all equipment, no matter it's age.  

If Amtrak casts a vision and shows that it can deliver, the money will be generously forthcoming from Capitol Hill.  

Billions $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$ ain't enough, get trillions $$$,$$$,$$$,$$$,$$$.

      Won't take trillions either. So far NOBODY has any idea of what Amtrak's costs are and Anderson and no one else want you to know what they are. They have an agenda and intend on getting it done. Saving long distance trains is NOT on the agenda.
      The first thing is to get rid of all the germs running it into the ground. Second is to run it like a business.    NOT going to happen.

What Mr. Koch said.

I'm all for the 1ST post, gotta go on both corridors and LD Trains, the main thing is fixing what Propeller Head's doing, especially since he thinks all these cuts are gonna work!

djansson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My one objective would be to hammer Congress and
> the White House to create and fund a Passenger
> Rail Trust Fund, just like the Airlines and
> Highways have.
>
Airlines do not have a trust fund, avaition does. There is a big difference.

Posted from iPhone

As others have said, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
is the problem.  

Every year, Amtrak has to go hat in hand, just like those beggars you see in urban areas, to Congress and beg -- Please Sir, may I have some more?

Highways not only have dedicated funding sources, but over half of that money does NOT come from taxes collected from automotive taxes.  You see that traffic light?  Property taxes pay for it.

Similar facts apply to the air transit industry.  Airports?  Local Non-Taxed Bond Funds mean anything to you?

It takes a year to two years just to get all the parts you need for an interlocking track crossover delivered.  Please, Sir can I have some more?

Brian

(SNIP)
>
> It takes a year to two years just to get all the
> parts you need for an interlocking track crossover
> delivered.  Please, Sir can I have some more?
>
> Brian

Does it take Union Pacific or CSX a year to get parts for an interlocking crossover?

Posted from Android

I would definitely be working on upgrading the equipment. Probably look at the EMD F125 as a new unit for trains. Maybe see if there is any chance of rebuilding the Genesis locomotives.

I can definitely see putting in more trains, two in particular would be the Floridian and the Lake Cities (the latter probably replaced by a rerouted Lake Shore Limited).

I'd also look at revising some trains so that passengers don't have to be boarding at o,dark thirty, of course in some situations that's unavoidable. Another would be looking at rerouting trains so that passengers don't have to travel as far to get to the station. Example: Reroute the Capitol Limited to actually go through Ft. Wayne instead of using Waterloo, IN as the Ft. Wayne station. Sure it might add time to the train, but at least the passengers in the area would be happier that they don't have to travel as far to get to the train and would be encouraged to take the train.

I'd also start a massive advertisment campaign. We would start putting TV adds out in the cities we serve. We would start to make arrangements like what airlines do for shows like Wheel of Fortune and The Price is Right. Because the more people know about our trains and see the benefits of riding, the more passengers we get. We'd ask passengers to conduct surveys on what they thought of their trip and, if they had any issues, what we could do to improve their experience.

Someone mentioned to me that they'd try to get mail service back. I'm a little hesitant about it, but maybe we could make arrangements with USPS since both of us are government branches.

But before all of that. I would schedule an appointment to meet with the President of the United States to discuss with him the importance of Amtrak and see if we can come up with a reasonable solution to keep the trains running and get funding. Maybe have a discussion with state governors that provide funding for certain services as well. I'd especially sit down with the CEO's and boards of the railroads we operate over to come to an agreement with them on how we can improve service.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> (SNIP)
> >
> > It takes a year to two years just to get all
> the
> > parts you need for an interlocking track
> crossover
> > delivered.  Please, Sir can I have some more?
> >
> > Brian
>
> Does it take Union Pacific or CSX a year to get
> parts for an interlocking crossover?

The time to wire and install an interlocking control house is generally 18 months to 2 years.  The time to procure and install special trackwork is generally 1 year.  You can't install the special trackwork without the control house to point protect it prior to the cutover.  You can't just overnight these from an Amazon warehouse.

I'd look at separating the NEC from the LD routes. Amtrak technically didn't have the NEC to start, it was handed to them thanks to bankrupt PennCentral. Definitely specified service units, LD and State supported. Also looking at expanding at localizing LD route management. Like for example for the Zephyr have the route managers and analysts in Denver, Oakland, and Chicago. Not just solely in Chicago. Definitely brink back the transcon Sunset daily, with an additional state suported train Mobile - New Orleans. Look at getting a Superliner 3 order, and maybe rehabbing some of the Sightseers into Parlours for the Zephyr, Chief, Starlight, Sunset, and Empire Builder. That's just a start. The big change would be to open up the books and conform to GAAP rules and make them visible to see how it's all working, instead of cooking the books and allocating costs where they feel like. 

Fuel taxes are the primary source of highway and some other transportation funding in California (not HSR!).
That source has dwindled over the years because of more fuel-efficinet and electric cars, and
the Legislature not having the business sense (and huevos) to index taxes annually.

Bill Deaver
Tehachapi, CA

SD80MACfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would definitely be working on upgrading the
> equipment. Probably look at the EMD F125 as a new
> unit for trains. Maybe see if there is any chance
> of rebuilding the Genesis locomotives.
>
> I can definitely see putting in more trains, two
> in particular would be the Floridian and the Lake
> Cities (the latter probably replaced by a rerouted
> Lake Shore Limited).
>
> I'd also look at revising some trains so that
> passengers don't have to be boarding at o,dark
> thirty, of course in some situations that's
> unavoidable. Another would be looking at rerouting
> trains so that passengers don't have to travel as
> far to get to the station. Example: Reroute the
> Capitol Limited to actually go through Ft. Wayne
> instead of using Waterloo, IN as the Ft. Wayne
> station. Sure it might add time to the train, but
> at least the passengers in the area would be
> happier that they don't have to travel as far to
> get to the train and would be encouraged to take
> the train.
>
> I'd also start a massive advertisment campaign. We
> would start putting TV adds out in the cities we
> serve. We would start to make arrangements like
> what airlines do for shows like Wheel of Fortune
> and The Price is Right. Because the more people
> know about our trains and see the benefits of
> riding, the more passengers we get. We'd ask
> passengers to conduct surveys on what they thought
> of their trip and, if they had any issues, what we
> could do to improve their experience.
>
> Someone mentioned to me that they'd try to get
> mail service back. I'm a little hesitant about it,
> but maybe we could make arrangements with USPS
> since both of us are government branches.
>
> But before all of that. I would schedule an
> appointment to meet with the President of the
> United States to discuss with him the importance
> of Amtrak and see if we can come up with a
> reasonable solution to keep the trains running and
> get funding. Maybe have a discussion with state
> governors that provide funding for certain
> services as well. I'd especially sit down with the
> CEO's and boards of the railroads we operate over
> to come to an agreement with them on how we can
> improve service.

Good luck on the last one. Doubt if Trump would give any advocate the time of day. If they did get a meeting, it would be a good idea not to mention that Amtrak is energy efficent. That would be a deal killer.  

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > (SNIP)
> > >
> > > It takes a year to two years just to get all
> > the
> > > parts you need for an interlocking track
> > crossover
> > > delivered.  Please, Sir can I have some
> more?
> > >
> > > Brian
> >
> > Does it take Union Pacific or CSX a year to get
> > parts for an interlocking crossover?
>
> The time to wire and install an interlocking
> control house is generally 18 months to 2 years. 
> The time to procure and install special trackwork
> is generally 1 year.  You can't install the
> special trackwork without the control house to
> point protect it prior to the cutover.  You can't
> just overnight these from an Amazon warehouse.


OK.

So does Amtrak plan and order a year or 18 months ahead?

Union Pacific etc rebuild hundreds of these plants annually.

Without moaning and groaning.

Posted from Android

ATSF3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SD80MACfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I would definitely be working on upgrading the
> > equipment. Probably look at the EMD F125 as a
> new
> > unit for trains. Maybe see if there is any
> chance
> > of rebuilding the Genesis locomotives.
> >
> > I can definitely see putting in more trains,
> two
> > in particular would be the Floridian and the
> Lake
> > Cities (the latter probably replaced by a
> rerouted
> > Lake Shore Limited).
> >
> > I'd also look at revising some trains so that
> > passengers don't have to be boarding at o,dark
> > thirty, of course in some situations that's
> > unavoidable. Another would be looking at
> rerouting
> > trains so that passengers don't have to travel
> as
> > far to get to the station. Example: Reroute the
> > Capitol Limited to actually go through Ft.
> Wayne
> > instead of using Waterloo, IN as the Ft. Wayne
> > station. Sure it might add time to the train,
> but
> > at least the passengers in the area would be
> > happier that they don't have to travel as far
> to
> > get to the train and would be encouraged to
> take
> > the train.
> >
> > I'd also start a massive advertisment campaign.
> We
> > would start putting TV adds out in the cities
> we
> > serve. We would start to make arrangements like
> > what airlines do for shows like Wheel of
> Fortune
> > and The Price is Right. Because the more people
> > know about our trains and see the benefits of
> > riding, the more passengers we get. We'd ask
> > passengers to conduct surveys on what they
> thought
> > of their trip and, if they had any issues, what
> we
> > could do to improve their experience.
> >
> > Someone mentioned to me that they'd try to get
> > mail service back. I'm a little hesitant about
> it,
> > but maybe we could make arrangements with USPS
> > since both of us are government branches.
> >
> > But before all of that. I would schedule an
> > appointment to meet with the President of the
> > United States to discuss with him the
> importance
> > of Amtrak and see if we can come up with a
> > reasonable solution to keep the trains running
> and
> > get funding. Maybe have a discussion with state
> > governors that provide funding for certain
> > services as well. I'd especially sit down with
> the
> > CEO's and boards of the railroads we operate
> over
> > to come to an agreement with them on how we can
> > improve service.
>
> Good luck on the last one. Doubt if Trump would
> give any advocate the time of day. If they did get
> a meeting, it would be a good idea not to mention
> that Amtrak is energy efficent. That would be a
> deal killer.  

Don't knock it till you've tried it. And besides, what's the worst he's going to do? Say "No, I'm not going to help you or give you advice on how to make a business profitable"?

Research.   Then more research.

For instance, how many passengers are carried on LD trains between intermediate points?   How many passenger attempts at booking online for intermediate points get turned down because of lack of space allocation for that city pair?   There's a lot of data out there that Amtrak probably already has but doesn't actually use.   It's called "understanding your market".

Then you commission research to determine whether people could be tempted off other means of transport and why they don't use Amtrak.   That would probably gather a lot of hearsay type evidence that we'd all disagree with but if that's what people think; the fact they're wrong means something needs to be done to change attitudes among potential customers.

Then you need a bit of thinking outside the box.   Just because an LD train has run "this way" since the year dot doesn't mean that's the way it has to be.   Suppose you shifted the whole train timing 12 hrs?   There would be points served during the day today that would suddenly see the train at night.   Conversely night stops would become daytime stops.   Maybe some of the bookings that people consider and then abandon are because of unfriendly timings.   Now, 12 hours is probably not the right way to look at it but who's to say some changes might not increase patronage where seats are currently under used?

Once I've got my initial data tranche together I'd review it with train staff, station agents, sales people - anyone and everyone in the company that wants to take part.   I'd add a few non employees like travel agents (particularly non-US agencies).   I would anticipate that would bring up a new set of issues needing further research.

You could go adding research for ever but with two rounds I'd say you're going to be in a better situation to make informed decisions than you are today.

Now you can start making decisions.   Be prepared to experiment and just because it doesn't work on day 1 don't panic, it takes people time to get used to change (customers and staff).

What changes would I make?   I have no idea because I don't have the data I need to make informed decisions.

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> abyler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > (SNIP)
> > > >
> > > > It takes a year to two years just to get
> all
> > > the
> > > > parts you need for an interlocking track
> > > crossover
> > > > delivered.  Please, Sir can I have some
> > more?
> > > >
> > > > Brian
> > >
> > > Does it take Union Pacific or CSX a year to
> get
> > > parts for an interlocking crossover?
> >
> > The time to wire and install an interlocking
> > control house is generally 18 months to 2
> years. 
> > The time to procure and install special
> trackwork
> > is generally 1 year.  You can't install the
> > special trackwork without the control house to
> > point protect it prior to the cutover.  You
> can't
> > just overnight these from an Amazon warehouse.
>
> So does Amtrak plan and order a year or 18 months
> ahead?

Amtrak runs its own Lancaster signal shop to wire interlocking control houses.  It has a production schedule like any other factory. Once the huts are ready, Amtrak has production signal gangs to do installation work.  They can generally handle 2 to 3 interlockings at any one time.

We recently, working with Amtrak and LIRR made 7 interlocking cutovers in 7 years using 2 signal construction gangs and 2 fabricators (Amtrak and Ansaldo).  LIRR and Amtrak both averaged about 21 months or so per cutover.

For special trackwork, Amtrak, lie everyone else, orders material 1 to 3 years out from the need date, with longer dates required to fulfill bigger orders and more complex units.

> Union Pacific etc rebuild hundreds of these plants
> annually.

And they require the same planning effort for this multi-year task to ensure it can be completed on time and all the different parts come together.  Look at the UPRR St. Louis line, which is taking 6+ years to reconstruct.