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Passenger Trains > NY MTA execs to body block perps


Date: 12/05/18 12:19
NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: Lackawanna484

The NY Metropolitan Transportation Authority has ordered executives to form body blocks to repel fare beaters, the NY Post reports. They will be backed up by city police.

The authority believes the problem is increasing. Some sources place the loss at $200 million per year.

The situation appears to be exacerbated by two issues. One is the decision by Mayor DeBlasio to abandon the strict enforcement of quality of life rules in the subways. Spitting, urinating, taking up two seats, fare jumping, etc would result in a police frisking and ID check. Warrants, drugs, guns would get you cuffs.

The second was DA Cy Vance's decision to treat fare beating as a civil offense. You get a ticket, and officers can't search you or run a warrants check.

https://nypost.com/2018/12/03/mta-will-have-execs-cops-physically-block-fare-beaters/

Posted from Android



Date: 12/05/18 12:28
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: joemvcnj

"Mayor DeBlasio to abandon the strict enforcement of quality of life rules in the subways"

He has disregarded the Broken Windows strategy circa-1990 that lowered city and subway crime rates, as well as cut down on fare beating.
If the fare evasions could be eliminated, it would negate the need for an even-year NYCT fare hike.



Date: 12/05/18 12:53
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: Lackawanna484

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Mayor DeBlasio to abandon the strict enforcement
> of quality of life rules in the subways"
>
> He has disregarded the Broken Windows strategy
> circa-1990 that lowered city and subway crime
> rates, as well as cut down on fare beating.
> If the fare evasions could be eliminated, it would
> negate the need for an even-year NYCT fare hike.

You probably remember the NYC "stop and frisk" policy in high crime areas originated on the subways.  Anybody committing any violation would be interviewed by police, and checked for warrants. Carrying a weapon, or drugs, or being the subject of an outstanding warrant means you would be arrested.

People got the message, and stopped doing things which attracted the attention of the police.



Date: 12/05/18 13:18
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: andersonb109

Wouldn't ticket barriers accomplish the same thing? 



Date: 12/05/18 13:21
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: Lackawanna484

andersonb109 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wouldn't ticket barriers accomplish the same
> thing? 

Many fare beaters enter through the  full height gates which are held open for them by departing passengers.  The gates are also remotely controlled to enable access for persons with disabilities.

Some "turnstiles" are now much more secure, and resist simple jumping.



Date: 12/05/18 13:34
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: Abqfoamer

How long will you New Yorkers put up with this off-the-rails, psycho-lib, over-controller?
So glad we moved off Staten Island, a place that DeCommio routinely ignores, I read.



Date: 12/05/18 16:02
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: SANSR

"DeCommio"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Chuckle.....that's good.



Date: 12/05/18 19:37
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: 4451Puff

Out here in the west, the turnstile jumping has gotten so bad on the B.A.R.T. system that it's become more appropriate to refer to the fare as a "suggested donation".

-'Puff



Date: 12/05/18 22:22
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: cchan006

4451Puff Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Out here in the west, the turnstile jumping has
> gotten so bad on the B.A.R.T. system that it's
> become more appropriate to refer to the fare as a
> "suggested donation".
>
> -'Puff

I remember seeing rampant turnstile jumping on the Paris Metro in France about 2 decades ago.

Just the other day, I saw a transient loitering around the paid area of the station, until he found a person to closely follow. Yup, he was able to go through the "turnstile" behind that paid passenger without getting caught.

Another transient (a newbie?) at the airport was asking about which way to go (Millbrae or San Francisco), and I told him I'm about to board the 2nd to the last train to Millbrae. He asked me if the train will turn around and come back, and I said no, it's going to the yard. Looked like his plans for getting a few more naps onboard the train was ruined... so he walked away, and presumably looked for a "free" way to leave the station.

BART hasn't had these problems until recently. That speaks volume about Bay Area's decay as a "civilized" place to live, although many on TO will say I'm stating the obvious. Anyway, I'm drifting off topic, since we're supposed to be discussing New York.

 



Date: 12/06/18 07:41
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: Duna

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 4451Puff Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Out here in the west, the turnstile jumping has
> > gotten so bad on the B.A.R.T. system that it's
> > become more appropriate to refer to the fare as
> a
> > "suggested donation".
> >
> > -'Puff
>
> I remember seeing rampant turnstile jumping on the
> Paris Metro in France about 2 decades ago.
>
> Just the other day, I saw a transient loitering
> around the paid area of the station, until he
> found a person to closely follow. Yup, he was able
> to go through the "turnstile" behind that paid
> passenger without getting caught.
>
> Another transient (a newbie?) at the airport was
> asking about which way to go (Millbrae or San
> Francisco), and I told him I'm about to board the
> 2nd to the last train to Millbrae. He asked me if
> the train will turn around and come back, and I
> said no, it's going to the yard. Looked like his
> plans for getting a few more naps onboard the
> train was ruined... so he walked away, and
> presumably looked for a "free" way to leave the
> station.
>
> BART hasn't had these problems until recently.
> That speaks volume about Bay Area's decay as a
> "civilized" place to live, although many on TO
> will say I'm stating the obvious. Anyway, I'm
> drifting off topic, since we're supposed to be
> discussing New York.
>
>  

Crime, vagrancy, loud & vulgar music, panhandling, and general filth are big reasons tranist use is declining. At some point, the single-occupancy car becomes a much nicer way to comute.



Date: 12/06/18 07:49
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: Lackawanna484

The Fruitvale shooting of Oscar Grant was 10 years ago, and gangs / crime in the BART stations was already a problem.  

NYC has been decriminalizing a lot of activity which was once considered criminal, including aggressive panhandling.

FWIW, I wouldn't want to be asked to form a body block for young, strong,probably armed people trying to avoid paying a $2.75 fare.



Date: 12/06/18 08:56
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: Dcmcrider

Just a couple days ago, the DC Council voted to "de-criminalize" turnstile jumping, and a bunch of other Metro-related offenses (eating, drinking, spitting, etc.). So now these infractions are civil offenses like a parking ticket, or jay-walking.   (In DC, at least. In the suburbs state laws will still govern.) They will be given a ticket and allowed to proceed on their way with no frisking, checking for outstanding warrants, etc. Needless to say WMATA and its police union are un-thrilled about this development.

A week or so ago, a couple of thugs harassed and beat up a blind passenger in front of a dozen witnesses. They were later seen on a surveillance camera--you guessed it--jumping the fare gates on the way out of a station. Often fare evasion is an "entry-level" (pardon the pun) offense employed by miscreants who commit other, often more serious, crimes on the system. These are not the poor and downtrodden who simply can't afford the fare. 

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/18 08:59 by Dcmcrider.



Date: 12/06/18 09:02
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: Duna

Dcmcrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just a couple days ago, the DC Council voted to
> "de-criminalize" turnstile jumping, and a bunch of
> other Metro-related offenses (eating, drinking,
> spitting, etc.). So now these infractions are
> civil offenses like a parking ticket, or
> jay-walking.   (In DC, at least. In the suburbs
> state laws will still govern.) They will be given
> a ticket and allowed to proceed on their way with
> no frisking, checking for outstanding warrants,
> etc. Needless to say WMATA and its police union
> are un-thrilled about this development.
>
> A week or so ago, a couple of thugs harassed and
> beat up a blind passenger in front of a dozen
> witnesses. They were later seen on a surveillance
> camera--you guessed it--jumping the fare gates on
> the way out of a station. Often fare evasion is an
> "entry-level" (pardon the pun) offense employed by
> miscreants who commit other, often more serious,
> crimes on the system. These are not the poor and
> downtrodden who simply can't afford the fare. 

This is 21st Century America. Vibrant. Diverse. Progressive. Get used to it.



Date: 12/06/18 09:23
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: Lackawanna484

One of the intents of the quality of life rules in the NYC subway was to lower the number of people carrying illegal weapons. If you met an opponent, you could run or fight, but risk to others would be low. No spray of bullets on the L train.

Sounds like DC is also going in the wrong direction.

Posted from Android



Date: 12/06/18 09:50
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: cchan006

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Fruitvale shooting of Oscar Grant was 10 years
> ago, and gangs / crime in the BART stations was
> already a problem.  

Nope. That's an outsider's conclusion to the over-publicized, yet still tragic event. Turnstile jumping might have occurred back then, but people actually respected the idea of paying fare, so it was almost unheard of 10 years ago, and I never saw it happen.

Like I just stated above, the decay of society is adding additional layers to the classic "urban blight" problems we have become familiar with. It's not just panhandling, robbery, and typical misbehavior now. 



Date: 12/06/18 09:56
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: Dcmcrider

The final vote in DC's clown-car legislature was 10-2--veto-proof, and it's unlikely Congress has the gumption to block it. At least the WMATA Board Chair Jack Evans, who also keeps a seat warm on the DC Council, voted "no."

https://dc.curbed.com/2018/12/5/18127776/dc-metro-fare-evasion-decriminalization-wmata-transit
 

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA



Date: 12/06/18 12:23
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: Lackawanna484

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Fruitvale shooting of Oscar Grant was 10
> years
> > ago, and gangs / crime in the BART stations was
> > already a problem.  
>
> Nope. That's an outsider's conclusion to the
> over-publicized, yet still tragic event. Turnstile
> jumping might have occurred back then, but people
> actually respected the idea of paying fare, so it
> was almost unheard of 10 years ago, and I never
> saw it happen.
>
> Like I just stated above, the decay of society is
> adding additional layers to the classic "urban
> blight" problems we have become familiar with.
> It's not just panhandling, robbery, and typical
> misbehavior now. 

Nope that Oscar Grant wasn't shot, or Nope that gangs weren't a problem in 2009?



Date: 12/06/18 12:36
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: cchan006

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nope that Oscar Grant wasn't shot, or Nope that
> gangs weren't a problem in 2009?

Oscar Grant didn't get shot for fare evasion. No cell phone robberies until way after 2009. 



Date: 12/06/18 12:40
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: Lackawanna484

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nope that Oscar Grant wasn't shot, or Nope that
> > gangs weren't a problem in 2009?
>
> Oscar Grant didn't get shot for fare evasion. No
> cell phone robberies until way after 2009. 

I didn't make the comment that Oscar Grant was shot for fare evasion.  See the post, which hasn't been edited.



Date: 12/06/18 12:45
Re: NY MTA execs to body block perps
Author: cchan006

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I didn't make the comment that Oscar Grant was
> shot for fare evasion.  See the post, which
> hasn't been edited.

Gangs OUTSIDE the BART station has always been a problem in certain neighborhoods. Their jumping the fare gates and robbing patrons of personal items (specifically cell phones) has been a recent phenomenon. Using Oscar Grant as an example of today's BARTs problem sounds like exploitation of a 9 year old tragedy.



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