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Passenger Trains > White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!


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Date: 12/06/18 02:56
White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: funnelfan

The White Pass & Yukon, probably the most successful tourist railroad in North America has new owners and big expansion plans. A turn back loop at the summit and two new passing sidings and new locomotives. GE has drawn up plans for a B+B+B+B locomotive converted from ex-NS B32-8's. Here is a excellent article about the plans; https://www.railwayage.com/mechanical/growing-alaskas-gold-rush-railroad/

Ted Curphey
Cheney, WA



Date: 12/06/18 03:50
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: andersonb109

Excellent article. With all the crowds and multiple trains, I think the days of photo charters are over.  This photo was taken on a Trains Unlimited Tours charter in June 2007. We chased the train by car as it turns out the charter wasn't so private after all. The train that day was open to the public with limited runpasts.




Date: 12/06/18 04:11
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: sums007

I thought they already had a loop up top.  I went around it 2 years ago to get back down to our cruise ship.



Date: 12/06/18 05:17
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: DrawingroomA

sums007 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought they already had a loop up top.  I went
> around it 2 years ago to get back down to our
> cruise ship.

The loop is presently under construction.

https://wpyr.com/construction-begins-on-summit-loop-project/

There is a passing siding (referred to as a loop in Britain) at the summit. On my excursion three years ago the locomotives were run around the train and the train was pulled back to Skagway. Passengers flipped the seats so they would face forward on the return trip. The conductor told me that in the peak cruise season as many as five sections of the excursion train are operated. The 4000 foot loop is expected to allow all of them to be turned.



Date: 12/06/18 05:25
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: sixaxlecentury

The current balloon track is as Fraser/Bernard Lake.



Date: 12/06/18 05:38
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: mp208

Turning loop is at Fraser, several miles beyond the summit where the tourist boat trains reverse. If you want a real treat, ride the once daily train to or from Carcross (mp 67.5). The rear car on the return to Skagway is for "locals" and is not crushed with boat people. Assuming the new loop will be in the vicinity of White Pass, 19 miles from Skagway.
1. relaxed coach ride out of Carcross
2. Along Lake Bennett
3. Bennett station.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/18 07:04 by mp208.








Date: 12/06/18 06:04
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: sixaxlecentury

Bennett loop/wye
Fraser loop

It really does make sence to have a loop at the lower elevation to turn trains and get more runs in, especially with the scenery.  






Date: 12/06/18 07:36
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: CPR_4000

Sounds like what the Brazilians have done with secondhand GE's. Cool!

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?6,4576949,4578616#4578616



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/18 07:38 by CPR_4000.



Date: 12/06/18 07:58
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: Duna

Would these locomotives have a B+B-B+B wheel arrangement like this BB40-9W? http://www.railpictures.net/photo/495959/

Or B+B+B+B, which means the center two trucks are also connected/articulated? Is/was there an example of such a loco?



Date: 12/06/18 10:54
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: funnelfan

The standard gauge conversion locos will look a bit unstable on narrow gauge trucks and track. I also wonder about the clearances of tunnels and rock cuts?

Ted Curphey
Cheney, WA



Date: 12/06/18 11:12
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: 86235

funnelfan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The standard gauge conversion locos will look a
> bit unstable on narrow gauge trucks and track.

Don't see why. Brazil's metre gauge iron ore carrier Vale has a large fleet of span bolster locomotives, many of which were acquired second hand from North America, regauged and retrucked in Brazil. They seem pretty steady.



Date: 12/06/18 16:00
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: zorz

86235 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> funnelfan Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The standard gauge conversion locos will look a
> > bit unstable on narrow gauge trucks and track.
>
> Don't see why. Brazil's metre gauge iron ore
> carrier Vale has a large fleet of span bolster
> locomotives, many of which were acquired second
> hand from North America, regauged and retrucked in
> Brazil. They seem pretty steady.

I doubt it would be converted GE’s due to clearances and length as the span bolsters would be underpinned from the center of the original B trucks, which requires lengthened frames.

My money is on GT38AC or GT42AC models with a reinforced cab (likely an Australian design) to account for crash standards...though this is also the more expensive option, it is probably lower maintenance and requires fewer units per train.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 12/06/18 17:03
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: NSDTK

Per the diesel shop theres only a foot of width differance between there current locomotives to the B32-8. One would think GE would have taken the railroads clearances into thought when they made there preposal. There also recomending 2800hp i think thats the HP of the I6 Gevo for repowering, that being said ill be riding that line May of 2020 so we shall see what power is on hand 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/18 17:05 by NSDTK.



Date: 12/06/18 17:48
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: CA_Sou_MA_Agent

Any talk about reopening the line to Whitehorse?
 



Date: 12/06/18 18:08
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: mundo

Suggest you open the story in Railway Age, where mention is made about Whitehorse.



Date: 12/06/18 18:47
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: funnelfan

86235 Wrote:
> Don't see why. Brazil's metre gauge iron ore
> carrier Vale has a large fleet of span bolster
> locomotives, many of which were acquired second
> hand from North America, regauged and retrucked in
> Brazil. They seem pretty steady.

Yes, but meter gauge is still another 3-3/8" wider than 3' gauge. It will work, but the engine will look ungainly and the cross level in the track will need to be held to a high standard.

Ted Curphey
Cheney, WA



Date: 12/06/18 19:20
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: zorz

NSDTK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Per the diesel shop theres only a foot of width
> differance between there current locomotives to
> the B32-8. One would think GE would have taken the
> railroads clearances into thought when they made
> there preposal. There also recomending 2800hp i
> think thats the HP of the I6 Gevo for repowering,
> that being said ill be riding that line May of
> 2020 so we shall see what power is on hand 

Good point - they probably did take it into account and GE has a lot of experience with narrow gauge adaptations of standard gauge units.

I just wondering about the state of the track and stability with that in mind.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 12/06/18 22:35
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: jmt

The 20 NRE converted B23-7 on metre gauge C-C bogies exported to Kenya in 2015, seem to be successful. Not turning turtle on the atrocious track over there

Metre is 39.370"

Edited;
Looks like the Editor at Railway Age has amended the article, and dropped references to GE "dusting off 70 year old drawings" (in relation to span bolsters), so I have removed comments re the quality of their journalism

At 8 x 375 hp (DC) traction motors, and I guess locos geared back to no more than 35 mph, why would the proposed loco require more than 3300 hp? 3300 less a 10% parasitic load giving 3000 hp for traction.  

It is interesting to note that when ALL in Brazil converted C bogie ex US mainline power to metre gauge (cut and shut bogies), with GE 761 traction motors, they derated these locos to around 2600hp, as more power would never be required



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/18 18:59 by jmt.



Date: 12/07/18 02:11
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: JPB

Did WP&Y ever consider electrifying the first 21 miles to handle the high frequency cruise ship trains? Would be congruent with today's eco-friendly sustainable concerns as it seems that there are a lot of hydro-electric power sources:
http://www.akenergyauthority.org/Programs/AEEE/Hydro
http://www.susitna-watanahydro.org/2012/09/swh-introduces-new-website/

Also does WP&Y have wayside signals to facilitate the 10 minute headways between cruise trains?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/18 02:26 by JPB.



Date: 12/07/18 11:14
Re: White Pass & Yukon set for a big Expansion!
Author: mp208

no signals currently.....maybe 10 minute fusees like in the old days.  Electrification would spoil the ambiance of the mountain scenery.  Tourists would think they are back in the "lower 48"   Philadelphia, New Jersey etc.



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