Passenger Trains > Silver Meteor 97 on Dec.6th

Just yesterday completed a trip from Baltimore to Orlando on 97 and bus to Tampa. In the past often utilized AMTRAK for travel within Florida and throughout the system. I stopped when they dropped the dining car from 91/92. Although I could have taken 91 to Tampa on Thursday which would have been much more convenient, I did not and will not as long as there is no dining car. The experience on 97 was excellent. Rodney the SCA in 9710 was a delight with a great sense of humor and a desire always to be helpful. There were two working serving in the dining car and one cook. Even though the three sleepers were sold out, I found the service in the Dining Car to be quite good and the food was fine. I like the new Dining Cars very much as the seats are appreciably larger and the general ambience very nice. We left Baltimore slightly ahead of time but lost time waiting for a very late 92 to arrive and depart Richmond. We lost about forty minutes. During the night we lost an additional hour and I awakened while stopped at the Charleston, SC AMTRAK station, two hours late. We arrived Orlando about two hours and twenty minutes late but no one within earshot seemed concerned. What minor things did I learn: the crews in 91/92 must bring their own meals and they have permission to use the microwave in the lounge car to reheat their food; sleeping car passengers on 91/92 positively deplore the absence of a decent meal and the crew members in the two sleepers "take the heat." While the sleepers on 91/92 are often shown as full, it is the short distance traffic (like Raleigh North and South) which tend to fill them. up. Fewer and fewer Florida to East Coast passengers. If the "Star" shines it is for those people who are not on it long enough to miss a dining car. Finally, if and when Brightline/Virgin arrive in Tampa, say good-bye to AMTRAK from Florida's west coast.As Trump would say: "sad!"

Thanks for the trip report. Shame 97/98 dont have a Tampa section anymore. I remember seeing both the Star and Meteor while railfaning as a teen in Alexandria, Va in the early and mid 90s. Both sections had 3 to 4 coaches depending on the season and sleepers, lounges two bag cars. I cant remember if they had slumbercoaches? I'll have to watch some of my poorly shot videos from that era.

Posted from Android

Not sure what the economics of this would look like, but what would happen if:

1) The Silver Star was broken up into two day trains. They'd have to be done in a way that there long enough that State Support would not be needed, or it will be DOA.. 
2) A second frequency over the Silver Star route where by an overnight train could serve the region, but geared toward Mid-Atlantic and Tampa region
3) If not item 2) then perhaps the Silver Palm needs to come back into play, because Amtrak did have a good St. Petersburg/Tampa market. Even the area in and around Tampa (south to Bradenton and Sarosota) I could see as an Amtrak market that is building (lot of businesses now in this region). 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/18 14:45 by jp1822.

cabsignaldrop Wrote:
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> Thanks for the trip report. Shame 97/98 dont have
> a Tampa section anymore. I remember seeing both
> the Star and Meteor while railfaning as a teen in
> Alexandria, Va in the early and mid 90s. Both
> sections had 3 to 4 coaches depending on the
> season and sleepers, lounges two bag cars. I cant
> remember if they had slumbercoaches? I'll have to
> watch some of my poorly shot videos from that era.
>
>
> Posted from Android
Yes the Florida trains did have Slumbercoaches...

Thank you for the Meteor update, bob52741.  Interesting feedback on the Star similar to what I have heard from other sources.  The Silver Starvation experiment should be over, as it is a failure.  Travelers paying large dollars for overnight transport having to deal with snacks on a 24 hour trip.  Prisoners at white collar penitentiaries eat better food than sleeper passengers.  It is time for leadership to present a humane solution when caring for American citizens who cannot fly and don't feel safe in a long distance bus.

No, esteemed Amtrak leaders: Amtrak's long distance trains are not "experiential" services.  They provide daily service and safety to Americans who rely on such services as life lines to/from heartland homes and cross country convenience and necessity to people who cannot use other modes.

The alternate view is the Star does fine, sells its sleeper space etc without a diner.

Posted from Android

There's no indication whatsoever that the diner-less Star is a failure. 

Assuming something is worked out with the SIlver Meteor and Tampa, the only people impacted by breaking the Star into a Raleigh-Richmond train and a Jacksonville-Miami train are passengers at Denmark, Columbia, Camden, Hamlet, and Southern Pines as well as people from NC headed Savannah and points south. There just aren't many of them. You could argue that there would be if the trains didn't run in the middle of the night, but that's a different discussion. Arrangements could be made for bus between Raleigh and Fayetteville for 97 and 98.

I say Raleigh-Richmond because connections at Richmond to 66 and 67 would fill a nice gap in the current schedule. There's a chance NCDOT would put up the bucks. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/10/18 09:55 by ctillnc.

ctillnc Wrote:
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> There's no indication whatsoever that the
> diner-less Star is a failure. 
>
> Assuming something is worked out with the SIlver
> Meteor and Tampa, the only people impacted by
> breaking the Star into a Raleigh-Richmond train
> and a Jacksonville-Miami train are passengers at
> Denmark, Columbia, Camden, Hamlet, and Southern
> Pines as well as people from NC headed Savannah
> and points south. There just aren't many of them.
> You could argue that there would be if the trains
> didn't run in the middle of the night, but that's
> a different discussion. Arrangements could be made
> for bus between Raleigh and Fayetteville for 97
> and 98.
>
> I say Raleigh-Richmond because connections at
> Richmond to 66 and 67 would fill a nice gap in the
> current schedule. There's a chance NCDOT would put
> up the bucks. 

Raleigh to Richmond would seem like a good city pair, I wonder if there's a deep enough market to support a second day train on points farther north?

"Raleigh-Richmond" is often used to characterize SEHSR because of the construction plans, but the context is for SEHSR trains to continue north to at least DC. 

Raleigh - DC is a good air market, so there's some demand for the city pair, at least by proxy.

ctillnc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There's no indication whatsoever that the
> diner-less Star is a failure. 
>
> Assuming something is worked out with the SIlver
> Meteor and Tampa, the only people impacted by
> breaking the Star into a Raleigh-Richmond train
> and a Jacksonville-Miami train are passengers at
> Denmark, Columbia, Camden, Hamlet, and Southern
> Pines as well as people from NC headed Savannah
> and points south. There just aren't many of them.
> You could argue that there would be if the trains
> didn't run in the middle of the night, but that's
> a different discussion. Arrangements could be made
> for bus between Raleigh and Fayetteville for 97
> and 98.

I have to disagree, obviously you have never ridden the Star or if so have not been awake at Columbia.  That is one of the busier stations since it serves USC (the original USC not the younger one on the left coast).  From personal observation there are some large crowds at that station.  And statistics for 2017 Columbia was behind Tampa, NY, DC, Orlando, Raleigh, and Richmond; but ahead of every other stop even the others in Florida including Miami, Jacksonville, and Palm Beach. I'd agree that the the majority of the Northeast-Florida travel uses the Meteor, but for the Star most of the people using those SC stations are going to the northeast or Florida. I just do not see the argument for Raleigh-Richmond or Jax-Miami trains as you would lose all the intermediate passengers in the Carolinas, unless it is to eliminate a long distance train.

About a month or two before the Silver Star lost its diner, I actually took the Silver Star home from a business trip from Bradenton, FL. Had some time to kill, so instead of flying I opted for the train. Took a car service out to Lakeland, FL (client was footing the bill!) and picked up the Silver Star there. I was actually shocked to see such minimal usage of the Silver Star's diner. As much as I'd like to try and defend it, it was just not happening. 

Northbound from Tampa, breakfast in the diner, as well as lunch were the busiest. Dinner leaving Lakeland and dinner the next day somewhere around Washington DC was like two or three tables and that was it. The sleepers were running a little light on this particular trip, but coach was loaded. Amtrak personnel really needed to try and attract coach passengers to come to the diner. Of all the long distance trains I've been on, this one really proved how important it is to get coach passengers to patronize the diner, or the diner is just going to die off. It can not be there JUST for sleeper passengers. 

I am somewhat surprised Amtrak has not launched a program where they divorce the sleeper fare from the dining car fare. I mean the accounting for this has to be a nightmare as a "joint fare." Not even sure how Amtrak does the allocation, but I'd love to know. 

Southern Pines was also a surprise of a stop - LOTS of passengers getting off and boarding here. 

They actually held the Carolinian at the first joint station that both of these trains serve so the Star could get in and out and ahead of the Carolinian. That seemed like the best option since that train had more stops to make than the Star. Confusion ensued at Raleigh though - as they thought the Carolinian was coming in first. Surprised there also with the amount of passengers. 

I think the Silver Star would do better as two day trains, but I'd extend it - 

NYC/Washington DC to Raleigh
Raleigh to Tampa

> I have to disagree, obviously you have never
> ridden the Star or if so have not been awake at
> Columbia.  That is one of the busier stations...

All things are relative. Busier than Denmark or Camden, sure. But let's look at the passenger counts for 2017:
32,000 at Columbia.
52,000 at Rocky Mount.
52,000 at Florence.
53,000 at Fayetteville.
53,000 at Wilson.
57,000 at Savannah.
66,000 at Charleston.
85,000 at Cary.
150,000 at Raleigh.

 

Southern Pines is/or was a great golf destination.

It used to have awesome air service, and a lot of private jets.

Posted from Android

ctillnc Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I have to disagree, obviously you have never
> > ridden the Star or if so have not been awake at
> > Columbia.  That is one of the busier
> stations...
>
> All things are relative. Busier than Denmark or
> Camden, sure. But let's look at the passenger
> counts for 2017:
> 32,000 at Columbia.
> 52,000 at Rocky Mount.
> 52,000 at Florence.
> 53,000 at Fayetteville.
> 53,000 at Wilson.
> 57,000 at Savannah.
> 66,000 at Charleston.
> 85,000 at Cary.
> 150,000 at Raleigh.

Of course all those stations except Columbia have multiple trains serving them, not just one each way.

Is there much chance that South Carolina will put some money in the deal?

Posted from Android

You're kidding, right? Day service Greenville-Columbia-Charleston would make a lot of sense (a better use of equipment now assigned to the Silver Star, I'd argue) -- but I've never heard anything to suggest that SCDOT would pay for it... much less a contribution to interstate service.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/18 11:38 by ctillnc.