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Passenger Trains > Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?


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Date: 01/10/19 11:54
Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: walstib

The Patron tequila car went north on 14 yesterday, and I just saw a FB video of the same car at Sacramento going east on 6, which means they must have taken the car off the Starlight in Oakland. 

I thought removing cars from the Starlight at Oakland was against the new Amtrak PV rules. Or has Amtrak eased up on the rules instituted last year?

And, it looks like the Reno Fun Train is running this year. They're selling tickets here: http://keyholidays.com

What's Going On?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/10/19 11:55 by walstib.



Date: 01/10/19 11:57
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: stash

PVs can come off at Oakland from 14 per revised rules.

Posted from Android



Date: 01/10/19 12:18
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: Topfuel

stash Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PVs can come off at Oakland from 14 per revised
> rules.
>

Also, the cost is considerably higher to get a car switched off the northbound Starlight than it used to be. 



Date: 01/10/19 12:29
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: AMRAIL

New higher Amtrak tariff in place January 1, 2019! Oakland Switch $2,065.00 per occurrence!



Date: 01/10/19 12:42
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: mundo

The owner of that car has enough money to pay anything that Amtrak wants.

  

 



Date: 01/10/19 14:10
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: MILW16

Interesting that apparently Amtrak will run the Reno Fun Train.  Sure sounds like a charter to me.  Maybe it is the recurring operation that allows for it.



Date: 01/10/19 15:19
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: joemvcnj

What about the Leavenworth, WA trains ? 



Date: 01/10/19 20:38
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: abyler

mundo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The owner of that car has enough money to pay
> anything that Amtrak wants.

The owner of that car has enough money to make Amtrak do anything he wants.



Date: 01/10/19 23:59
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: pdt

Dear Trainorders members.....As long as things go smoothly, chances are there will continue to be a slow easing of PV and charter restrictions.  "Things go smoothly", means no more major accidents, and employees not saying that they can't do their jobs because of added PV and charter demands                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Just so you know. this will most likely happen without notice and fanfare, as publicity will increase the chance of liability, or someone making a stink about something.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    So,  I would urge everyone here not to be making a stink, or going to Amtk and saying."but u ran a charter for "___".  Making a stink will only serve to push policies backwards.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            As for charters,  1st ones appear to be for states / politicos requesting operations which have been long standing, and support local economies.   The New River train, reno fun train, ski train, etc. I'm telling ya.  Shut up, and be happy.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  As for Oakland.  14 to 6, and 5 to 11 have been approved, all be it at a higher rate.   5 to 14, or 11 to 6 are not authorized, not than anyone has ever requested it.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         Cant believe the number of ppl here who think "rules" are cast in stone.  These arent even rules, its just policy, and policy changes all the time, formally and informally.  Don't be so surprised if things are authorized verbally, without  big hoopla.   That's the way things like this ease up. :)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   ps.       I've edited this 4 times to make it more readable, but edit function not working correctly  :(



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/19 01:30 by pdt.



Date: 01/11/19 00:32
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: dan

what major accidents involved pv's?



Date: 01/11/19 01:05
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: pdt

Charter in VA with congresspeople on board, crashing into truck a grade crossing, along with the big ass accidents in Tacoma and North Carolina.
Only 1 was Amtks fault, and only 1 had a group of VIP's, but that makes no difference.   Public confindence was shaken, so the decision was made to pull things back,  Last thing Richard Anderson wanted to see was a number of notable people killed at once on an Amtk train, and all the ingredients were ther within about a 6 month period.  So rather than try to figure it all out piecemeal, the decision was, just stop everything right now, and lets see where we are.

As for the PV on and off points.....IDK for sure, but I'm guessing that middle mgmt at some places used PV movements as an excuse for a lot of operational problems.  Its an easy scapegoat.  And I'm betting that some supervisors just hate PV's, cause no one gets paid any more for the extra work, and some PV owners and passengers can be...welll a PITA.    I mean, PV owners pay a lot of money for service and may expect to be treated accordingly...while Amtk people arent getting any money for the extra work (other than OT possibly) , so their feeling might be...owners ought to be happy we handle them.  

  IDK any of this as cold hard fact.. This  is just putting two and two together, based on what I do know, and having seen this whole scenario before.

Believe me, dont believe me, up to you..  I probably shouldnt have said anything...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/19 01:12 by pdt.



Date: 01/11/19 01:36
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: dan

It used to be a lot of tipping got done by pv's or am i wrong here, to the people that serviced them, carted their trash,  was this widespread?   I would rather water  a car myself.  The operating crews on the rare mileage  gigs loved it, as they volunteered for these assignements i think., and loved the break from their regular haunts.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/19 01:48 by dan.



Date: 01/11/19 09:09
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: WP-M2051

AMRAIL Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> New higher Amtrak tariff in place January 1, 2019!
> Oakland Switch $2,065.00 per occurrence!

Correct but the car cannot be added to any train except #6 to leave Oakland; it's an almost useless "concession" on Amtrak's part to PV owners, esp. if your car is based in Oakland (e.g. for trips to LAX or SEA).



Date: 01/11/19 10:16
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: another_view

WP-M2051 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AMRAIL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > New higher Amtrak tariff in place January 1,
> 2019!
> > Oakland Switch $2,065.00 per occurrence!
>
> Correct but the car cannot be added to any train
> except #6 to leave Oakland; it's an almost useless
> "concession" on Amtrak's part to PV owners, esp.
> if your car is based in Oakland (e.g. for trips to
> LAX or SEA).


I know that I will feel the wrath of many TO members but I have to say it. I have posted before that I do not want my tax dollars subsidizing sleeper car passengers or dining car services. I have even stronger opinions on subsidizing private car moves. The private car coalitions have fought Amtrak for years to keep rates ridiculously low and previous CEOs (especially Gallagher) have complied even against the advice of the CFO and COO. $2,000 for a switch move is reasonable, if you want a private car, pay for it!



Date: 01/11/19 10:36
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: joemvcnj

another_view Wrote:

> I know that I will feel the wrath of many TO
> members but I have to say it. I have posted before
> that I do not want my tax dollars subsidizing
> sleeper car passengers or dining car services. I
> have even stronger opinions on subsidizing private
> car moves. The private car coalitions have fought
> Amtrak for years to keep rates ridiculously low
> and previous CEOs (especially Gallagher) have
> complied even against the advice of the CFO and
> COO. $2,000 for a switch move is reasonable, if
> you want a private car, pay for it!

Then you will be paying an even bigger subsidy to run the train with sleeper car revenue eliminated and coach revenue reduced as well if relegated to snack bar food, especiallty on 2 nite trains. We've already seen Lake Shore and Capitol Ltd ridership decline by more than 5% and 7.5%, the point at which yanking the diner became self defeating ($1.5 million per train). It's called Marginal Accounting analysis, which is way over Anderson's and Gardener's heads.

That's what happen when you try to micro-manage individual cars on the train and fail to look at the overall train due to a personal philosophy.



Date: 01/11/19 11:09
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: joemvcnj

As for cost of PV's, I have no idea, but switching costs can be expensive or cheap depending on where, when, and how.

If the Zephyr backs into Union Station to drop cars, pull the pin and leave it there. I don't see the cost. There are mechanical people there regardless of their  presence to handle HEP, air hose, etc. Adding cars I presume costs more. The rear of the train costs less than the front, unless the PVs run from one end to the end of the line to the other, so they stay up front with the locos when they get added and cut.

I am suspicious of Amtrak fees and how they calculate what they should be.



Date: 01/11/19 11:41
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: Cumbresfan

dan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It used to be a lot of tipping got done by pv's or
> am i wrong here, to the people that serviced them,
> carted their trash,  was this widespread?   I
> would rather water  a car myself.  The operating
> crews on the rare mileage  gigs loved it, as they
> volunteered for these assignements i think., and
> loved the break from their regular haunts.

Tipping (included within the definition of "Business Courtesy" in the new rules) is prohibited and Amtrak employees forbidden to accept such. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/19 13:02 by Cumbresfan.



Date: 01/11/19 12:35
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: bobs

The only location with an Amtrak switching fee for PVs is Oakland.  No reason has been given for adding this charge.  Elsewhere, switching is considered part of the cost of doing business.  There are switching charges imposed by freight railroads when you switch on and off an Amtrak train, but those are separate from the Amtrak charges.



Date: 01/11/19 18:04
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: another_view

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As for cost of PV's, I have no idea, but switching
> costs can be expensive or cheap depending on
> where, when, and how.
>
> If the Zephyr backs into Union Station to drop
> cars, pull the pin and leave it there. I don't see
> the cost. There are mechanical people there
> regardless of their  presence to handle HEP, air
> hose, etc. Adding cars I presume costs more. The
> rear of the train costs less than the front,
> unless the PVs run from one end to the end of the
> line to the other, so they stay up front with the
> locos when they get added and cut.
>
> I am suspicious of Amtrak fees and how they
> calculate what they should be.

There are mechanics at the local auto shop as well, should they change my oil for free since they are there? Everything has a cost, if we want LD trains to survive we must be more efficient.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 01/11/19 22:03
Re: Has Amtrak Eased Up On Its PV Rules?
Author: pdt

WP-M2051 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AMRAIL Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > New higher Amtrak tariff in place January 1,
> 2019!
> > Oakland Switch $2,065.00 per occurrence!
>
> Correct but the car cannot be added to any train
> except #6 to leave Oakland; it's an almost useless
> "concession" on Amtrak's part to PV owners, esp.
> if your car is based in Oakland (e.g. for trips to
> LAX or SEA).

A car coming off 5 can be added to 11.     Can u still do the  old LA-OAK RT?    Off 14 at OAK and on to 11 the next am?  IDK



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