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Passenger Trains > Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension


Date: 01/11/19 14:38
Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: milepost20

BART's extension from Warm Springs to Berryessa is projected to open late this year and now the first real
money is being spent on Phase 2 which will take the line through downtown San Jose, past Diridon station
and on to Santa Clara.  Total cost comes in at $4.7b with an anticipated contribution of $1.5b from the Federal
Transit Administration. From today's IRJ:
https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/metros/engineering-contract-awarded-for-bart-silicon-valley-phase-2-extension/

Note that the subway under Santa Clara Street will be double deck to accomodate the two tracks.  The main reason for
paralleling Caltrain from SJ to Santa Clara seems to be the need for a storage/maintenance facility at the end of the line
with the only available land being at the old SP Newhall Yard site.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/19 14:40 by milepost20.




Date: 01/11/19 16:51
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: bobs

The county transit authority, VTA, bought a portion of Newhall Yard years ago in preparation for BART's maintenance yard.  A stop at that location also allows connection to the free bus to San Jose airport since BART won't go there directly.



Date: 01/11/19 16:59
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: reindeerflame

Another mis-design.  Should run directly into San Jose Airport.



Date: 01/11/19 21:24
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: cchan006

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another mis-design.  Should run directly into San
> Jose Airport.

Haha. Spewing useless drivel again?

VTA Light Rail is closer to the airport (along N 1st St.), and it is on the terminal side, so no need to go underneath the runways to service the airport. If San Jose couldn't construct a light rail spur to the airport, I doubt they have the will power to construct BART to the airport either. You don't know this because it's not on the map posted above?

Furthermore, the SP Coast Line runs darn near the airport, too, on the west end, where a spur could have easily been built to reach the terminal. Nothing done there, either.

San Jose is far from being a transit-oriented city. 



Date: 01/11/19 21:35
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: reindeerflame

LOL.

Of course, all of San Jose is a misdesign.

Just a step ahead of Indiana.



Date: 01/11/19 21:39
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: CarolVoss

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> reindeerflame Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Another mis-design.  Should run directly into
> San
> > Jose Airport.
>
> Haha. Spewing useless drivel again?
>
> VTA Light Rail is closer to the airport (along N
> 1st St.), and it is on the terminal side, so no
> need to go underneath the runways to service the
> airport. If San Jose couldn't construct a light
> rail spur to the airport, I doubt they have the
> will power to construct BART to the airport
> either. You don't know this because it's not on
> the map posted above?
>
> Furthermore, the SP Coast Line runs darn near the
> airport, too, on the west end, where a spur could
> have easily been built to reach the terminal.
> Nothing done there, either.
>
> San Jose is far from being a transit-oriented
> city. 

As an octogenarian native of San Jose who just watched a 5 car totally empty VIA light rail train  running toward Santa Teresa at 3 pm yesterday, I know that transit has never been their long suit. All VTA trains have to crawl down 1st and 2nd Street thru downtiwn San Jose for antiquated reasons, and the fact that they dont connect to the airport has always been a colossal joke.Sad.
C

Carol Voss
Salinas, CA



Date: 01/11/19 22:37
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: peh934

My understanding was that the plan was to have a "people mover" from the Santa Clara Caltrain (and future BART) station to the airport and I found the attached document at http://vtaorgcontent.s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/Site_Content/Providing_connections_from_NormanMineta.pdf with "more" information at http://www.vta.org/Transparency/Capital-Program-Dashboard/Project-Scope?projectId=a0j1H00000FTkO0QAL

Although they also note: "This project is being reviewed in light of the development of the Diridon Intermodal Station Plan and how to connect this area with the airport."  So who knows what will eventually end up happening. Plus I don't think CA HSR is planned to stop at Santa Clara, so assuming it happens, to get from the airport to HSR you have to first take the people mover, and then trnser to BART or Caltrain before even getting to HSR... 




Date: 01/11/19 22:48
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: x3985

A general trend of 'pick one of the following':
A) Good route, bad schedule
B) Terrible route, good schedule

I think I seriously need to stop comparing it to the Japanese transportation system...



Date: 01/12/19 04:16
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: cchan006

peh934 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My understanding was that the plan was to have a
> "people mover" from the Santa Clara Caltrain (and
> future BART) station to the airport and I found
> the attached document
> at (snipped the link for easier reading)

Thanks for sharing that.

Another alternative should be considered. Instead of the thick straight red line under the runway, the People Mover should divert north from the Light Rail Station, run the length of both Terminal A and Terminal B, then go underneath the runway somewhat east and south from where the red line is then reach Caltrain Santa Clara station that way.

Reason? Make two stops at the airport terminals to serve both Terminals A and B, for the convenience of the airline passengers! I've seen other airports design their People Movers (Dallas, Denver, Las Vegas) to do just that. Civic planning is more than just cost control and drawing imaginary lines on the map.

This also reduces the need for the Airport shuttle buses to connect Terminals A & B, the Rental Car Center, and even the Economy Parking lot, if they are willing to add another stop near there. If they want the People Mover to service Avaya Stadium, they can run the People Mover loosely following the purple dots and avoid going underground - solves parking and congestion problems during soccer games and other events.

San Jose Airport has gone through several makeovers in recent years, evicting some General Aviation tenants on the SE end, and eliminating parking lots on the NW end to expand the runways. They built the impressive Rental Car Center and new Terminal B, too, while removing the old Terminal C. While all this was going on, they neglected to even think about People Movers and transit access, which made future transit-centric projects more inconvenient and costly.

While their lack of foresight is understandable, other cities thinking of airport renovation and expansion should learn from San Jose's mistakes.



Date: 01/12/19 07:55
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: Inthehole

California governments haven’t been in the business of actually solving problems for many years. They merely like to check a box to say that they provided a solution with the solution only partway done and not for the true convenience and ease of the people.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/19 07:56 by Inthehole.



Date: 01/12/19 08:47
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: coach

And what I hope happens in the future is that BART keeps heading north, but NOT under CALTRAIN, or on its right-of-way, but rather underneath El Camino Real, then connecting back into the Millbrae station.  The amount of service it would provide to millions of residents would be fantastic.  It would serve an entire corridor of commerce and residents, including Stanford University and other smaller schools, plus high schools.  It would really transform that corridor.



Date: 01/12/19 09:58
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: reindeerflame

Inthehole Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> California governments haven’t been in the
> business of actually solving problems for many
> years. They merely like to check a box to say that
> they provided a solution with the solution only
> partway done and not for the true convenience and
> ease of the people.
>
> Posted from iPhone

That’s all well and good, until you look at the Indiana and Ohio decision makers in comparison.



Date: 01/12/19 18:47
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: goduckies

No need for Bart north when Caltrain is already there. Money doesn't grow on trees.

Posted from Android



Date: 01/13/19 01:03
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: x3985

As much as I would love to have a faster and more frequent service that could be offered with BART up to Millbrae,
I don't think it is viable.
Most of the El Camino Real closely parallels the Caltrain route. The farthest would be the Santa Clara area and that's covered by VTA and their 22 and 522s.
My opinion: Parking is a must, or the train can only be used by people who live nearby or hope for a bus route that stops close. 

It would hurt Caltrain, unless one focuses on speed and the other focuses on serving all/most of the communities.

(Stanford already has a convenient and free shuttle going from the Caltrain station and the University too)



Date: 01/13/19 09:14
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: cchan006

reindeerflame Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That’s all well and good, until you look at the
> Indiana and Ohio decision makers in comparison.

FYI, I've visited those states. Cities visited: Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland, with stops at smaller cities in between for obvious reasons (Dayton and Canton). Public transit was inconvenient, so I drove those stretches with a rental car. I suppose Indianapolis could improve their public transit for events at The Speedway, but otherwise, I wouldn't be too critical of them for their lackadaisical attitude on rail transit. I don't recall those states having a housing "crisis" where unnatural market forces are forcing people to commute long distances. Or should I be political and say California commute = mass migration on a daily basis? :-)

Yup, I loosely drove along the "3C."



Date: 01/13/19 10:01
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: cchan006

Inthehole Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> California governments haven’t been in the
> business of actually solving problems for many
> years. They merely like to check a box to say that
> they provided a solution with the solution only
> partway done and not for the true convenience and
> ease of the people.

There are exceptions to that, of course. ~30 miles to the north, BART access to SFO did a pretty good job. I was one of the initial users of BART to the airport, and ridership has risen steadily the past 15 years or so. That might be the time to draw the line (15 years ago) on California becoming the Half-Ass State? :-)

SFO's People Mover serves all the terminals, plus the Rental Car Center to the north. Public transit access was already a done deal when they were doing major renovations on Terminal 2 in recent years. A friend who used SFO for the first time recently told me how the layout was far superior to LAX.



Date: 01/22/19 08:04
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: SteveD

By time I moved to Bay Area(turn of century) the aerial wye near Milbrae was no longer used for SFO access from south, but it had eliminated convenient shuttle bus service between station and airport, so actual BART access was only by transfer between trains somewhere between SFO and City...hardly convenient, and that after San Mateo County had contributed to SFO extension funding(oh, operation of leg proved too expensive--go figure).

Steve Donaldson
Pacific Grove, CA



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/19 16:18 by SteveD.



Date: 01/22/19 08:32
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: TAW

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> While all this was going on, they
> neglected to even think about People Movers and
> transit access, which made future transit-centric
> projects more inconvenient and costly.

In my experience, public transportation projects generally have two budgets. There's MY budget (must at least look efficient and useful) and THEIR budget (who cares?).

TAW



Date: 01/22/19 16:28
Re: Engineering Contract Award for BART Downtown S.J. Extension
Author: SteveD

Seevmy SFO comment at bottom of this thread, track extensions don't guarantee actual service. Also note failure to stop,VTA trains on overpass where it crosses Amtrk missing potential connection.
bobs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The county transit authority, VTA, bought a
> portion of Newhall Yard years ago in preparation
> for BART's maintenance yard.  A stop at that
> location also allows connection to the free bus to
> San Jose airport since BART won't go there
> directly.

Steve Donaldson
Pacific Grove, CA



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