Passenger Trains > Honolulu Rail Disaster

"Recent audits of Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transit (HART) by the city of Honolulu and state of Hawaii provide a backroom view of how the rail transit-industrial complex is scalping taxpayers. Honolulu’s rail line, which was originally supposed to cost less than $3 billion, is now expected to cost well over $9 billion, thanks to poor planning and HART essentially letting the foxes (in the form of outside contractors) guard the chicken house (the public purse)...."

Well that's not very nice at all. $6 billion that could have stayed in taxpayers pockets, used to buy food, rent...

http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=15569
(Warning: contains citations & links to facts)

Nice "unbiased" source you have there.

PHall Wrote:
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> Nice "unbiased" source you have there.


Please inform us of any inaccuracies in the article or sources contained in the article.

Or are you content to blame the messenger?

Do you ever expect any government project to come in close to budget or be on time.  If they ever present an accurate cost- the project would never be approved.  Just the way the game is played.  Once you are into it, you have to complete it.

Wurli1938 Wrote:
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> Do you ever expect any government project to come
> in close to budget or be on time.  If they ever
> present an accurate cost- the project would never
> be approved.  Just the way the game is played. 
> Once you are into it, you have to complete it.


This what America has become- a game? You can always tell the winners- follow the money.

Some gov't projects do come in on-budget & on-time. Moreso in the past.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/19 12:00 by Duna.

Wurli1938 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Do you ever expect any government project to come
> in close to budget or be on time.  If they ever
> present an accurate cost- the project would never
> be approved.  Just the way the game is played. 
> Once you are into it, you have to complete it.


>> Is this what America has become?

YES - like cable network news, everyone knows, no one
admits the obvious - regardless of subject.

/Mitch

Evifdently, cost overruns are not limited to rail projects, nor to Hawaii

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transportation/measure-would-force-seattle-to-cover-highway-99-tunnel-cost-overruns/

Of course there are examples of cost overruns ranging from Wisconsin, where Govenor Walker has highway construction running all over the hinterlands to Boston's Big Dig.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/19 12:11 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Evifdently, cost overruns are not limited to rail
> projects, nor to Hawaii
>
> https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/transpor
> tation/measure-would-force-seattle-to-cover-highwa
> y-99-tunnel-cost-overruns/
>
> Of course there are examples of cost
> overruns ranging from Wisconsin, where Govenor
> Walker has highway construction running all over
> the hinterlands to Boston's Big Dig.


Yep. Look at the broken F-35 and Littoral Combat Ship projects. Follow the money.

I'm mode-neutral. I'd just like facts to be presented so people can make informed decisions. "What you cannot measure you cannot improve" is true.

This can not go on forever. Soon, we will run out of other people's money.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/19 12:59 by Duna.

I've always thought this was one of biggest boondoggles in U.S. history!!

Having spent time in Honolulu traffic, I'm inclined to support the project. However, the execution here appears to be absolutely horrible. 

Honolulu looked at the Amtrak Lancaster, PA  station project and figured they could easily one up them.

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2018/11/15/breaking-news/hart-board-approves-new-rail-recovery-plan/#googDisableSync
 
"...At the instruction of the FTA, the new recovery plan outlines a path to complete the rail project for $8.299 billion in construction costs plus $897 million in financing costs, for a total of $9.196 billion. However, the Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation says in the recovery plan it is determined to hold its construction costs to $8.165 billion. HART also says it is determined to finish the project in late 2025, but a consultant for the FTA estimates there is only a 65 percent chance the project will be completed by September of 2026...."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/19 14:29 by Lurch_in_ABQ.

Duna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Nice "unbiased" source you have there.
>
>
> Please inform us of any inaccuracies in the
> article or sources contained in the article.
>
> Or are you content to blame the messenger?

Right there on the title of their web Page.

"The Antiplanner. Dedicated to the sunset of government planning."

My POV, there is nothing that the government can do right in their eyes. Even if the government did something "right" they won't report it because it doesn't agree with their antigovernment bias.
Not so much as "inaccuraces"  but more like omissions.
About the only thing missing is the Anarcists Circle A logo.


[edit - fixed spelling error, web vs wep]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/19 15:07 by PHall.

My company bid on a portion of this project and lost.  Every new story I see about HART makes me happy we did.

"Audit: 18 rail consultants paid average of $500,000 a year in salaries, overhead"
 
http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2019/01/15/second-series-honolulu-rail-audits-criticizes-harts-management-structure-spending-consultants/
 
http://files.hawaii.gov/auditor/Reports/2019/19-04.pdf
  
 

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Duna Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > PHall Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Nice "unbiased" source you have there.
> >
> >
> > Please inform us of any inaccuracies in the
> > article or sources contained in the article.
> >
> > Or are you content to blame the messenger?
>
> Right there on the title of their wep Page.
>
> "The Antiplanner. Dedicated to the sunset of
> government planning."
>
> My POV, there is nothing that the government can
> do right in their eyes. Even if the government did
> something "right" they won't report it because it
> doesn't agree with their antigovernment bias.
> Not so much as "inaccuraces"  but more like
> omissions.
> About the only thing missing is the Anarcists
> Circle A logo.



So then, you can't inform us of any inaccuracies in the article or sources contained in the article.

In other words, the article is truthful.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/19 15:04 by Duna.

Duna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> PHall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Duna Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > PHall Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Nice "unbiased" source you have there.
> > >
> > >
> > > Please inform us of any inaccuracies in the
> > > article or sources contained in the article.
> > >
> > > Or are you content to blame the messenger?
> >
> > Right there on the title of their wep Page.
> >
> > "The Antiplanner. Dedicated to the sunset of
> > government planning."
> >
> > My POV, there is nothing that the government
> can
> > do right in their eyes. Even if the government
> did
> > something "right" they won't report it because
> it
> > doesn't agree with their antigovernment bias.
> > Not so much as "inaccuraces"  but more like
> > omissions.
> > About the only thing missing is the Anarcists
> > Circle A logo.
>
>
>
> So then, you can't inform us of any inaccuracies
> in the article or sources contained in the
> article.
>
> In other words, the article is truthful.
>  

So you're saying that your choice of a source was intentional? Even with their stated bias?
I prefer my news straight up and not leaning to the left or the right.

There was a lot of discussion about whether Honolulu was a good rail opportunity.

Posted from Android

PHall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Duna Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > PHall Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Duna Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > PHall Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > Nice "unbiased" source you have there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please inform us of any inaccuracies in the
> > > > article or sources contained in the
> article.
> > > >
> > > > Or are you content to blame the messenger?
> > >
> > > Right there on the title of their wep Page.
> > >
> > > "The Antiplanner. Dedicated to the sunset of
> > > government planning."
> > >
> > > My POV, there is nothing that the government
> > can
> > > do right in their eyes. Even if the
> government
> > did
> > > something "right" they won't report it
> because
> > it
> > > doesn't agree with their antigovernment bias.
> > > Not so much as "inaccuraces"  but more like
> > > omissions.
> > > About the only thing missing is the Anarcists
> > > Circle A logo.
> >
> >
> >
> > So then, you can't inform us of any
> inaccuracies
> > in the article or sources contained in the
> > article.
> >
> > In other words, the article is truthful.
> >  
>
> So you're saying that your choice of a source was
> intentional? Even with their stated bias?
> I prefer my news straight up and not leaning to
> the left or the right.


"Make the bad facts stop!"

 

Anyone thinks business runs differently hasn't worked in business.

Can't tell you how many over schedule, over budget, badly planned projects I have seen.

Sometimes projects are poorly planned, poorly researched, things happen and, yes, sometimes there is corruption, in govt. and in business.  Humans plan and execute these things.  Humans are fallable.

Z