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Passenger Trains > Off Topic: Beiber Bus Lines out of business


Date: 02/09/19 03:41
Off Topic: Beiber Bus Lines out of business
Author: joemvcnj

Looks like they stranded people in NYC and Philly yesterday evening: 

http://www.wfmz.com/news/berks/bieber-cancels-all-bus-service-until-further-notice/1006707700

https://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-nws-bieber-cancels-bus-service-20190208-story,amp.html



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/19 04:18 by joemvcnj.



Date: 02/09/19 05:32
Re: Off Topic: Beiber Bus Lines out of business
Author: Lackawanna484

The commuter business is tough all around. Fees at Port Authority are high, too.

For folks out of the area, Bieber operated bus commuter service from Reading PA to Newark airport and NYC. Service overlapped the old time Reading Company, Jersey Central, and Lehigh Valley lines.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/09/19 06:52
Re: Off Topic: Beiber Bus Lines out of business
Author: jp1822

And that's now a MUCH busier corridor than what it used to be when the trains ran out to Philipsburg, NJ, Lehigh Valley, and beyond. 



Date: 02/09/19 09:57
Bus Lines out of business
Author: 79mph

Just goes to prove. Even when you can use public infrastructure essentially free of charge, are not responsible for anything but coming up with a mechanically reliable vehicle, some gas and a driver, there is still very little profit margin in moving people.
Imagine if they still  had to build and maintain "stations" like in the old days.



Date: 02/09/19 10:29
Re: Bus Lines out of business
Author: ALCO630

Bieber has been on a downhill slide for a long time. In fact just last year they were shut out of their NYC terminal.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/09/19 10:30
Re: Bus Lines out of business
Author: RuleG

79mph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just goes to prove. Even when you can use public
> infrastructure essentially free of charge,

Don't know what constitutes "essentially free of charge," but in Pennsylvania, the tax on diesel fuel is/was 38.1 cents per gallon (as of 2012, may be higher in 2019).  Additionally, as noted in the article, Bieber was paying fees to use the Port Authority bus terminal in New York until it was kicked out for non-payment.

are not
> responsible for anything but coming up with a
> mechanically reliable vehicle, some gas and a
> driver, there is still very little profit margin
> in moving people.

> Imagine if they still  had to build and maintain
> "stations" like in the old days.

I can't imagine any private transportation company having the money to build a new passenger terminal in any city with a vibrant core. 
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/19 10:31 by RuleG.



Date: 02/09/19 10:38
Re: Bus Lines out of business
Author: joemvcnj

Some time in the last decade, Capitol Trailways (Capitol Bus Company of Pennsylvania) also went out of business after many decades. They had been pooling with Greyhound service along I-81 between Harrisburg to Syracuse, had a route up to Elmira, and their bread and butter was Harrisburg to NYC via York, PA. 

The frequencies were simply cut on I-81, Susquehanna Trailways took over the Elmira run, maybe a few others, and Beiber absorbed the Capitol bus between Harrisburg and NY. I believe they may have been known as Beiber Trailways, but dropped out of that quickly. Over the last few years, as their debt, age of buses, and road calls grew, that run whittled down to almost nothing. Then they defaulted on gate fees in PABT. 

Trans Bridge about a year or so ago smelled blood in the water and started eating Beiber's lunch on a new route I-78 route, which was run apart from their own Allentown - PABT service.

https://transbridgelines.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Schedule-Update-12.6.pdf
I suspect that will morph into something bigger now, though there is this:
https://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-nws-bieber-bus-klein-transportation-20190209-story.html 
 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/19 10:55 by joemvcnj.



Date: 02/09/19 12:13
Bus Lines out of business
Author: 79mph

Most of the budget bus lines do not use "facilities."
They use the curb, often a block or so away from the station.
One can argue the gas tax and license fees either way, but most commercial operators get tax deductions and credits for their expenses.
What they would pay one one side would be taken off the other side.
Hence the public gets no tax benefit from the operation.
 



Date: 02/09/19 13:24
Re: Carl R. Bieber out of business
Author: RuleG

79mph Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Most of the budget bus lines do not use
> "facilities."

The original subject of this thread is Carl R. Bieber bus company, a legacy operator which has existed for nearly seven decades.  It cannot be charatarized as a "budget bus line."  Like other older intercity bus companies, it utilized stations, terminals, etc.

> They use the curb, often a block or so away from
> the station.
> One can argue the gas tax and license fees either
> way, but most commercial operators get tax
> deductions and credits for their expenses.

How much of Pennsylvania's 38.1 cent tax can operators deduct?

> What they would pay one one side would be taken
> off the other side.
> Hence the public gets no tax benefit from the
> operation.
>  



Date: 02/09/19 13:30
Re: Bus Lines out of business
Author: ctjacks

These bus companies also pay a hefty toll to cross the Delaware and Hudson rivers.  Definitely not free to use the roads or bridges.



Date: 02/09/19 14:16
Re: Bus Lines out of business
Author: ALCO630

At one time, most of Bieber's business was charters to an event like a concert not point to point travel like Greyhound.

Posted from Android



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/19 14:16 by ALCO630.



Date: 02/09/19 14:24
Re: Bus Lines out of business
Author: jp1822

I am sure Trans-Bridge will fill in the gab for Bieber..... It will likely spark some debate, but only that, of returning NJT to Philipsburg (and access to the Lehigh Valley). Been talked about for years, but nothing more. When both SEPTA and NJT cut the line back from Allentown/Bethlehem and Philipsburg respectively, it was a sad day........They'll never get it back. 



Date: 02/09/19 14:47
Re: Bus Lines out of business
Author: Lackawanna484

Phillipsburg via an all CNJ routing is a pipe dream. Too much development along the route in 30 years.

With billions for a second track from P'burg to Bound Brook, maybe NS would be interested.

NJT has more pressing needs, though...

Posted from Android



Date: 02/09/19 15:11
Re: Bus Lines out of business
Author: joemvcnj

The fatal blow to Beiber was loss of the Kutztown U. charter contracts, and they are right in their home town. That more or less effectively paid for access to PABT, if not Lincoln Tunnel tolls too. 

There is no market to extend the NJT Raritan Line from High Bridge to Phillipsburg. It would be too slow and uncompetitive with I-78, and the passengers are mostly coming from Pennsylvania. While NJT has trackage rights west of High Bridge, past Musconetcong Mountain, to just west of that tunnel on the Lehigh Valley, then onto the NS/ex-LV to Phillipsburg (ex-CNJ is severed by I-78), they have no trackage rights at all into Pennsylvania because that service was gone some years before NJT was created. I also doubt they have such rights on the LV  between Bound Brook and the Musconetcong Mountain. NJT was created 21 years after LV passenger service ceased. They would have to pay NS market rates for track access, or else get Amtrak to run it, who has a legal right to pay incremental access fees as opposed to market fees, and get someone to pay for capacity expansion. NJ-DOT, Penn DOT, and the transit outfit LANTA are not interested. 

Lucky me saw the CNJ shoe fly onto the LV while on the Amtrak Autumn Express a few years ago. 

I don't know about Klein, but Trans-Bridge will probably push west, though they have very high fares compared to NJT for a given distance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/19 15:17 by joemvcnj.



Date: 02/09/19 17:22
Re: Bus Lines out of business
Author: Lackawanna484

From what I've heard, Trans-Bridge runs a comfortable, reliable service.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/09/19 17:32
Re: Bus Lines out of business
Author: joemvcnj

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> From what I've heard, Trans-Bridge runs a comfortable, reliable service.

They do, but they are pricey. They also seem to sell off their buses once they hit 7 or 8 years of age, except for the 7 or 8 that are titled to NJT. They have aliases of Lehigh Valley Coach Lines and Delaware River Coach lines. 

I am shocked as to how many views this OT subject got. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/19 07:35 by joemvcnj.



Date: 02/10/19 08:32
Tolls Make Sense
Author: 79mph

If the tolls go to a specific bridge project, they make sense.
But oh no, the tolls go to support all sorts of extraneous other things, and of course there are "administrative costs" as in the case of former Governor Christie's operation.
Instead of charging the Sunset Limited and the Southwest Chief for track and bridge work on the northeast corridor, just tack an extra buck on each ticket for those passengers who actually use that bridge.



Date: 02/10/19 09:30
Re: Tolls Make Sense
Author: Lackawanna484

The Port Authority, which operates the bridges and airports, has been marked to pay a big part of the Amtrak NJT tunnel.

Big subsidy from road and air users to rail users.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/10/19 10:38
Re: Tolls Make Sense
Author: joemvcnj

We have no idea how much each state, the PA, and the feds will pay. The PA is merely the lead agency. 
The PA also says PATH rail system runs a $400 million deficit, which on its face is laughable for a gnats ass of a rail system. 



Date: 02/10/19 11:10
Re: Tolls Make Sense
Author: Lackawanna484

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> We have no idea how much each state, the PA, and
> the feds will pay. The PA is merely the lead
> agency. 
> The PA also says PATH rail system runs a $400
> million deficit, which on its face is laughable
> for a gnats ass of a rail system. 

Yes.

On the last tunnel go around, the one President Trump discarded, PA would have paid about half. That's a good expectation, I guess.

Posted from Android



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