Passenger Trains > Wealthy NIMBYS apparently get their way.

https://urbanmilwaukee.com/2019/05/14/transportation-illinois-kills-hiawatha-expansion/

Erik Leeper
Phoenix, AZ

How about running a few up the old CNW? 

Good for them.  I would not want that in my town either.

Typhoon Wrote:
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> Good for them.  I would not want that in my town
> either.

There goes Typhoon again..

NIMBY's constraining interstate commerce. Need to refleet with gallery or some sort of bi-level car with better seating. This could affect a 2nd frequency proposed to St Paul. The ex-C&NW from Kenosha to Milwaukee would be either very slow or very expensive to restore. 

I've been discussing this with a transit activist in Chicago whom I know. The problem isn't really the passenger trains, it's building a siding...er...mmm...uh...freight train storage track. It sounds to me like the point of the siding is not dive for a people train 10 minutes behind then follow but rather a place to hold a train out until it has somewhere to go. When a siding is used to hold trains out until there is a place to go tonight or  tomorrow or whatever, it is a storage track. Folks don't relish the thought of a freight train, power running, parked outside of their houses for hours or days. The alternate plan was build crossovers to allow single tracking passenger trains around anchored freight trains (industrial strength dumb idea, but that's the state of American railroading). The railroad is an old condition. Having a one track yard in the 'hood is not.  Part of the root of the need is running freight trains that don't fit anywhere, causing them to have nowhere to go. There are other ways it might be accomplished, but the public generally doesn't generally understand the need to build something for their passenger trains somewhere where their passenger trains don't go. The railroad isn't interested in doing that because they're just fine running a chaotic operation. If someone else fixes the problem, Wall Street is happy because the railroad didn't build anything. Finding the middle of those viewpoints and actually getting something done generally requires more work and imagination than folks doing it want to put into it.

TAW

Only other thing I can think of is run joint Amtrak/Metra trains to Milwaukee using extended rush hour Deerfield train slots. It would only be additional passenger trains north of there, and maybe not impact the freight as much.

Can't they stash a freight train in Rondout where there is not much population and no station, but perhaps room for a longer siding ? 

bluesboyst Wrote:
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> Typhoon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Good for them.  I would not want that in my
> town
> > either.
>
> There goes Typhoon again..

Yep, speaking like people that are not looking through foamer glasses.  The majority of people would not want this near their homes.  

Typhoon Wrote:
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> Yep, speaking like people that are not looking
> through foamer glasses.  The majority of people
> would not want this near their homes.  

No, foamers are not who ride Hiawatha trains. If homeowners don't like tracks and what is on them near their home, they can get off their duffs and move. The track have been there since the 1800's. It's called personal responsibility. Any railroad can increase service on their tracks. Homeowners have no right to disrupt interstate commerce. Same goes for living near an airport. If flight patterns change, too bad, you knew the airport was there. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/19 15:57 by joemvcnj.

Move most of the freight trains coming from Bensenville onto the ex-C&NW new line, and then find a place in Kenosha or Racine county to connect back up to the ex-Milwaukee Road line.  Not an insurmountable project!

How long did the folks in Barrington hold up the CN plus EJE deal to create a connecting track?

Years, at least.

Posted from Android

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Typhoon Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Yep, speaking like people that are not looking
> > through foamer glasses.  The majority of
> people
> > would not want this near their homes.  
>
> No, foamers are not who ride Hiawatha trains. If
> homeowners don't like tracks and what is on them
> near their home, they can get off their duffs and
> move. The track have been there since the 1800's.
> It's called personal responsibility. Any railroad
> can increase service on their tracks. Homeowners
> have no right to disrupt interstate commerce. Same
> goes for living near an airport. If flight
> patterns change, too bad, you knew the airport was
> there. 

Well nice rant, but as usual off course.   They are not against tracks that have been there since the 1800’s, they are against new ones being built in their back yard.  They are against the CP using these “freight holding tracks” as parking spots.  Townships, and the homeowners have every right to fight something that will negatively harm their lives.  Especially when tax money is being used.  Doing so is the definition of taking personal responsibility of a situation.  

 

No it is not in their backyards. They chose to have houses with backyards adjacent to the right of way. Risks come with that. They should have no say in how the railroad operates its trains.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/19 18:09 by joemvcnj.

Even hard working, decent folks have problems with railroads deciding to establish new facilities in existing neighborhoods.

CSX decided to establish a three track holding siding in Bogota NJ, milepost 7 on the former New York Central's West Shore Line. And promptly left several trains there, idling for 2-3 days at a time.

The neighbors objected, CSX ignored it. The mayor and council, and then the county freeloaders made their unhappiness known.  With a similar reaction. CSX invoked the federal pre-emption for interstate commerce and the rails

TWO US Congressmen wrote to CSX, demanding CSX come in to explain.  CSX did show up, and agreed to shut down any train waiting more than two hours.

It shouldn't take a pair of Congressmen to get CSX to do something which should have been done as a matter of good business practice in the first place.

We know railroad dispatching has competency issues, but interstate commerce prevails. It is also their private property and they pay property taxes.

Posted from Android

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> We know railroad dispatching has competency
> issues, but interstate commerce prevails. It is
> also their private property and they pay property
> taxes.
>
> Posted from Android

Paying property taxes shouldn't be the sole determinant of what you can do with your property.  Building a de novo railroad facility in the midst of an existing residential neighborhood should not be an allowable use.

No more than building  an auto chop shop, or late night club.

I agree with TAW's point. The real underlying issue is a freight railroad building unmanageable trains and running them in an unpredictable manner. If they actually had a schedule, and a deep board of crews ready to work, you wouldn't need the holding track.

That said, it is frustrating that between Chicago and Milwaukee there were three ROW's, and of those, only one has the highest freight and passenger traffic, rather than one having most of the freight and one having most of the passenger. If only the freight was consolidated on one and the passenger another, and the passenger had better access to Waukegan, Kenosha, and Racine.

Edit: I should add, remember that CP is now running double barrel trains that combine a grain and ethanol empty, for example. As one train each, they'd clear the busy interlockings and passenger mains more quickly, and accelerate into that busy traffic better, and fit more places. But instead they are over 10k, heavier, and more sluggish. And, if they are routed via A5, that means twice as much has to go 10mph around the connect track.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/19 18:31 by inCHI.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> No it is not in their backyards. They chose to
> have houses with backyards adjacent to the right
> of way. Risks come with that. They should have no
> say in how the railroad operates its trains.

The state of Illinois disagrees with you. They have a say in how their tax money is spent.  Once again, good for them.  If I was in their shoes I would be fighting it as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/19 18:32 by Typhoon.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> No, foamers are not who ride Hiawatha trains.

If foamers do not ride the Hiawatha trains, then how do they travel between Chicago and Milwaukee?  Greyhound bus?  Metra to Kenosha and taxi to Milwaukee?

RuleG Wrote:
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> joemvcnj Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > No, foamers are not who ride Hiawatha trains.
>
> If foamers do not ride the Hiawatha trains, then
> how do they travel between Chicago and
> Milwaukee?  Greyhound bus?  Metra to Kenosha and
> taxi to Milwaukee?

Uber?