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Date: 06/10/19 18:53
Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: SantaFeRuss

Alright, passenger locomotive experts, I am not in the know. Which locomotive is better SC44 (Charger) or the F125? Would a rebuilt F59 be feasible in this day and age? Thanks for opinions and answers.

SantaFeRuss



Date: 06/11/19 01:11
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: OTG

I'm not sure if anybody has run both the F125 and the Charger and they're both too young to judge long term reliability, so nobody can really have an opinion yet.  Based upon how long it took them to be placed in service, I'd guess the Charger is better.

As for the F59, rebuilding them is probably more feasible then buying new.  They won't be held to Tier-4 standards, and rebuilds are always cheaper.  The reason why the Chargers were ordered by State agencies to replace F59s is because Amtrak owned the F59s and leased them to the states for their service.  If the states were paying for them, why not own their own locomotives?  I doubt Amtrak would willingly sell the F59s to a State agency, and being a political purchase the politicians look a lot better standing in front of a shiny new locomotive with the latest in emissions tech.



Date: 06/11/19 08:00
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: Duna

SantaFeRuss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alright, passenger locomotive experts, I am not in
> the know. Which locomotive is better SC44
> (Charger) or the F125? Would a rebuilt F59 be
> feasible in this day and age? Thanks for opinions
> and answers.
>
> SantaFeRuss



You need to define what "better" means and include cost as a denominator in any calculation.  What you should be looking for is Value = benefit/cost.

This goes for...everything. Rolling stock, projects, systems...
 



Date: 06/11/19 09:57
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: jimB

I believe the Amtrak California F59PHi's used on the Capitol Corridor and San Joquin routes have been rebuilt with newer 710 engines  by EMD. Not sure on the exact details. They also, of course, have Chargers in service as well.

Jim B



Date: 06/11/19 14:07
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: wingomann

Duna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You need to define what "better" means and include
> cost as a denominator in any calculation.  What
> you should be looking for is Value =
> benefit/cost.
>
> This goes for...everything. Rolling stock,
> projects, systems...

​Value = benefit/cost seems to be an equation that is not used by modern government projects.  It's all image and sound bites now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/19 14:22 by wingomann.



Date: 06/11/19 15:20
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: SantaFeRuss

Duna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Alright, passenger locomotive experts, I am not
> in
> > the know. Which locomotive is better SC44
> > (Charger) or the F125? Would a rebuilt F59 be
> > feasible in this day and age? Thanks for
> opinions
> > and answers.
> >
> > SantaFeRuss
>
>
>
> You need to define what "better" means and include
> cost as a denominator in any calculation.  What
> you should be looking for is Value =
> benefit/cost.
>
> This goes for...everything. Rolling stock,
> projects, systems...
>  

Duna, I ask a simple question. Since you want to analyze the question why don't you do a Value equal cost analysis . Maybe I should have said what locomotive is  more reliable or has better fuel economy or cost less vs better. Is a GP35  better than a  C424?  Yes.  Is a C44-9W better than an SD75? Yes. So Duna, get to analyzing.


SantaFeRuss



Date: 06/11/19 15:31
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: atsf121

wingomann Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Duna Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > You need to define what "better" means and
> include
> > cost as a denominator in any calculation. 
> What
> > you should be looking for is Value =
> > benefit/cost.
> >
> > This goes for...everything. Rolling stock,
> > projects, systems...
>
> ​Value = benefit/cost seems to be an equation
> that is not used by modern government projects. 
> It's all image and sound bites now.

It’s because VOTES = Value for politicians, no matter the party affiliation

Posted from iPhone



Date: 06/11/19 16:13
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: Duna

SantaFeRuss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Duna Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Alright, passenger locomotive experts, I am
> not
> > in
> > > the know. Which locomotive is better SC44
> > > (Charger) or the F125? Would a rebuilt F59 be
> > > feasible in this day and age? Thanks for
> > opinions
> > > and answers.
> > >
> > > SantaFeRuss
> >
> >
> >
> > You need to define what "better" means and
> include
> > cost as a denominator in any calculation. 
> What
> > you should be looking for is Value =
> > benefit/cost.
> >
> > This goes for...everything. Rolling stock,
> > projects, systems...
> >  
>
> Duna, I ask a simple question. Since you want to
> analyze the question why don't you do a Value
> equal cost analysis . Maybe I should have said
> what locomotive is  more reliable or has better
> fuel economy or cost less vs better. Is a GP35 
> better than a  C424?  Yes.  Is a C44-9W better
> than an SD75? Yes. So Duna, get to analyzing.
>
>
> SantaFeRuss



Why the attitude?  I don't know the answers, I was just pointing out the question needed clarification.

 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/19 16:13 by Duna.



Date: 06/11/19 16:21
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: SantaFeRuss

Duna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Duna Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Alright, passenger locomotive experts, I am
> > not
> > > in
> > > > the know. Which locomotive is better SC44
> > > > (Charger) or the F125? Would a rebuilt F59
> be
> > > > feasible in this day and age? Thanks for
> > > opinions
> > > > and answers.
> > > >
> > > > SantaFeRuss
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > You need to define what "better" means and
> > include
> > > cost as a denominator in any calculation. 
> > What
> > > you should be looking for is Value =
> > > benefit/cost.
> > >
> > > This goes for...everything. Rolling stock,
> > > projects, systems...
> > >  
> >
> > Duna, I ask a simple question. Since you want
> to
> > analyze the question why don't you do a Value
> > equal cost analysis . Maybe I should have said
> > what locomotive is  more reliable or has
> better
> > fuel economy or cost less vs better. Is a
> GP35 
> > better than a  C424?  Yes.  Is a C44-9W
> better
> > than an SD75? Yes. So Duna, get to analyzing.
> >
> >
> > SantaFeRuss
>
>
>
> Why the attitude?  I don't know the answers, I
> was just pointing out the question needed
> clarification.
>
  No attitude. Just facts. If you don't know, leave it alone. Don't go telling me How I should ask the question. That's all.

SantaFeRuss



Date: 06/11/19 16:28
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: Duna

SantaFeRuss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Duna Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > Duna Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > Alright, passenger locomotive experts, I
> am
> > > not
> > > > in
> > > > > the know. Which locomotive is better SC44
> > > > > (Charger) or the F125? Would a rebuilt
> F59
> > be
> > > > > feasible in this day and age? Thanks for
> > > > opinions
> > > > > and answers.
> > > > >
> > > > > SantaFeRuss
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You need to define what "better" means and
> > > include
> > > > cost as a denominator in any calculation. 
> > > What
> > > > you should be looking for is Value =
> > > > benefit/cost.
> > > >
> > > > This goes for...everything. Rolling stock,
> > > > projects, systems...
> > > >  
> > >
> > > Duna, I ask a simple question. Since you want
> > to
> > > analyze the question why don't you do a Value
> > > equal cost analysis . Maybe I should have
> said
> > > what locomotive is  more reliable or has
> > better
> > > fuel economy or cost less vs better. Is a
> > GP35 
> > > better than a  C424?  Yes.  Is a C44-9W
> > better
> > > than an SD75? Yes. So Duna, get to analyzing.
> > >
> > >
> > > SantaFeRuss
> >
> >
> >
> > Why the attitude?  I don't know the answers, I
> > was just pointing out the question needed
> > clarification.
> >
>   No attitude. Just facts. If you don't know,
> leave it alone. Don't go telling me How I should
> ask the question. That's all.
>
> SantaFeRuss



What units are your "betters" denominated in?  Just what is being measured?

Pointing out that definitions need to be established.  Or it's all just daydreaming and opinion. Which can be fun, but is not helpful to anyone but the dreamer.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/11/19 16:31 by Duna.



Date: 06/11/19 19:41
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: SantaFeRuss

Duna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Duna Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > > -----
> > > > Duna Wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > > -----
> > > > > SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----
> > > > > > Alright, passenger locomotive experts,
> I
> > am
> > > > not
> > > > > in
> > > > > > the know. Which locomotive is better
> SC44
> > > > > > (Charger) or the F125? Would a rebuilt
> > F59
> > > be
> > > > > > feasible in this day and age? Thanks
> for
> > > > > opinions
> > > > > > and answers.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SantaFeRuss
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You need to define what "better" means
> and
> > > > include
> > > > > cost as a denominator in any
> calculation. 
> > > > What
> > > > > you should be looking for is Value =
> > > > > benefit/cost.
> > > > >
> > > > > This goes for...everything. Rolling
> stock,
> > > > > projects, systems...
> > > > >  
> > > >
> > > > Duna, I ask a simple question. Since you
> want
> > > to
> > > > analyze the question why don't you do a
> Value
> > > > equal cost analysis . Maybe I should have
> > said
> > > > what locomotive is  more reliable or has
> > > better
> > > > fuel economy or cost less vs better. Is a
> > > GP35 
> > > > better than a  C424?  Yes.  Is a C44-9W
> > > better
> > > > than an SD75? Yes. So Duna, get to
> analyzing.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > SantaFeRuss
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Why the attitude?  I don't know the answers,
> I
> > > was just pointing out the question needed
> > > clarification.
> > >
> >   No attitude. Just facts. If you don't know,
> > leave it alone. Don't go telling me How I
> should
> > ask the question. That's all.
> >
> > SantaFeRuss
>
>
>
> What units are your "betters" denominated in? 
> Just what is being measured?
>
> Pointing out that definitions need to be
> established.  Or it's all just daydreaming and
> opinion. Which can be fun, but is not helpful to
> anyone but the dreamer.

Duna, all well and good. Just stop. You don't like the way I ask my question, then don't participate. Like you typed earlier you don't know. Leave it at that. Thank you.

SantaFeRuss



Date: 06/11/19 19:56
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: ts1457

SantaFeRuss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Duna, all well and good. Just stop. You don't like
> the way I ask my question, then don't participate.
> Like you typed earlier you don't know. Leave it at
> that. Thank you.
>
> SantaFeRuss

I didn't pay attention what either of you said, because you both need to make the effort to trim the quotations.



Date: 06/11/19 20:17
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: SantaFeRuss

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Duna, all well and good. Just stop. You don't
> like
> > the way I ask my question, then don't
> participate.
> > Like you typed earlier you don't know. Leave it
> at
> > that. Thank you.
> >
> > SantaFeRuss
>
> I didn't pay attention what either of you said,
> because you both need to make the effort to trim
> the quotations.

ts1457 well after me suffering 2 strokes, I think I am doing pretty good. If you don't like my typing efforts, don't read them . Don't get yourself into Troll trouble.  Your post really was useless.

SantaFeRuss



Date: 06/12/19 07:39
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: jst3751

SantaFeRuss Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alright, passenger locomotive experts, I am not in
> the know. Which locomotive is better SC44
> (Charger) or the F125? Would a rebuilt F59 be
> feasible in this day and age? Thanks for opinions
> and answers.
>
> SantaFeRuss

Already hashed out here and nothing has changed.
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,4706505,page=1

A major hint: Only one agency has purchased the F125 to date.



Date: 06/12/19 11:54
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: SantaFeRuss

jst3751 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SantaFeRuss Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Alright, passenger locomotive experts, I am not
> in
> > the know. Which locomotive is better SC44
> > (Charger) or the F125? Would a rebuilt F59 be
> > feasible in this day and age? Thanks for
> opinions
> > and answers.
> >
> > SantaFeRuss
>
> Already hashed out here and nothing has changed.
> https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,
> 4706505,page=1
>
> A major hint: Only one agency has purchased the
> F125 to date.

Thank you,  jst3751

SantaFeRuss



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/19 23:17 by SantaFeRuss.



Date: 06/15/19 18:11
Re: Modern Passenger Locomotives
Author: TheApostleGreen

Neither.  MP54AC for the win.



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