Passenger Trains > Return of the Montreal Limited?

https://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/former-caq-mna-aims-to-launch-overnight-train-service-between-montreal-and-n-y-c

Will it get off the ground (oops...wrong metaphor!)?

There are some that do have a vision.

PRSL-recall Wrote:
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> There are some that do have a vision.

And it is no surprise that this man is Canadian.

"Daytime train trips between Montreal and New York currently run by Amtrak take up to 12 hours and cost between $100 and $135 for a one-way trip."

Bit of an exaggeration. I usually go for each way for $76. Various 10% discounts would be $67. Maybe he means Canadian dollars plus their taxes. Montreal's hotels can be pricey unless you search, though lower than Burlington, VT on a weekend. 

Could use a lie-flat or leg-rest Heritage coach as well. Customs at 10pm and 6am woud not be fun for an hour and a half. 

If daily, he needs to round up 10 cars plus spares. This sounds like IPH 2.0. Could be fun for a year, then could collapse, depending on the contract Amtrak sticks in his face. 

If the Gare Central Customs ever comes to pass, this train would have to stay off Track 23 for the Adirondack and Vermonter. Adirondack tends to slither in around 7 to 9 pm, precisely when this train would be getting out. 

"three passenger cars holding 120 passengers"

How do you get 40 people into a sleeper ? If he has 10-6 cars in mind, that is 22 at most. 11BR cars- 22 ast most. Slumbercoaches, if any are still around, maybe a little more. But then take away space for the shower that he wants.

"The trains would hook up with Amtrak trains in Albany, N.Y. that would take them into Penn Station in New York City."

Hitching onto the rear of 243(259) and 232(250) is probably what he has in mind 



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/19 06:33 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Could use a lie-flat or leg-rest Heritage coach as
> well. Customs at 10pm and 6am woud not be fun for
> an hour and a half. 

The bi-lateral agreements have been in place for several years for the pre-clearance facility at Montreal's Central Station, but the built-out is stalled. It now seems any further action is being put off until next year, at the earliest.

https://vtdigger.org/2019/08/15/preclearance-issues-extend-wait-for-rail-service-to-montreal/

Paul Wilson
Arlington, VA

Someone at IPH said their efforts to provide Chicago New York City service was set on fire.

I wonder what road blocks will be set in front of this effort. I wish them success and would like to take their ride.

I wish the venture luck.  I'd also really like to see some sort of enhanced coach service in addition to traditional sleeping cars.  I would think something along the lines of Delta's semi-private lay flat Delta One Suite could be very popular, if done right.  Thru ticketing with Amtrak to other NEC points would be great since the Adirondack currently does not allow same day connections to Harrisburg or Virginia.  However, Amtrak is not known for playing nice with others and would likely doom any venture before it got off the ground.  They don't want to provide the service, but sure as heck don't want anyone else to try either.  Look forward to hearing more about this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/19 09:43 by cabsignaldrop.

It is just a Subject name for this thread, but was wondering if "Montreal Limited" name is copyrighted to the CP, inherited from the D&H ? 

In this case I suspect that getting trackage rights on CP and CN may be the harder challenge than getting Amtrak to tow them to and fro between New York Penn and Albany. Unless of course they are thinking of somehow piggybacking on Amtrak to get from Albany to Montreal and back. And then there is CBP/CBSA. Lots of points where things can go Pear shaped.

It could be like the Hoosier State and American European/Orient Express: to the host RR, it is an Amtrak train. That means Amtrak may offer only an onerous contract - because they can.  I believe EXO could have trackage rights as far as Ste-Jeanne Sur Richelieu, unless that died when they shelved that south shore commuter rail project.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/19 11:43 by joemvcnj.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> It could be like the Hoosier State and American
> European/Orient Express: to the host RR, it is an
> Amtrak train. That means Amtrak may offer only an
> onerous contract - because they can.  I believe
> EXO could have trackage rights as far as
> Ste-Jeanne Sur Richelieu, unless that died when
> they shelved that south shore commuter rail
> project.

That still does not remove CN from an involved party since CP tracks are joined only at Rouses Point (for the Adirondack), and CV or NECR or whatever the heck it is in the US there, is joined I suppose at the border for the St. Albans route.

Spongebob-Trainguy Wrote:
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> Someone at IPH said their efforts to provide
> Chicago New York City service was set on fire.
>
> I wonder what road blocks will be set in front of
> this effort. I wish them success and would like to
> take their ride.

My guess is someone looked at IPH's credentials before making that decision.

over the D&H?, is it April 1st already?

Jishnu Wrote:
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>
> That still does not remove CN from an involved
> party since CP tracks are joined only at Rouses
> Point (for the Adirondack), and CV or NECR or
> whatever the heck it is in the US there, is joined
> I suppose at the border for the St. Albans route.

Or you could run this train on the traditional D&H routing into Windsor Station and avoid CN.  Of course Windsor is not set up for on the ground customs.
 

njmidland Wrote:

> Or you could run this train on the traditional D&H
> routing into Windsor Station and avoid CN.  Of
> course Windsor is not set up for on the ground customs.

Not a bad idea. Candiac to Montreal already has commuter trains. If they continued to do Customs at Rouses Point, then it could also stop at Montreal West. But they would have to get more Amtrak crews to qualify on that and to speak French regardless. Lucien L'Allier has open air platforms lacking canopies and head house with few amenities, something on the order of LIRR's Hunterspoint Avenue that has a canopy, but not Canadian winters. 



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/19 14:58 by joemvcnj.

I could fill a page as to what is not going to work with this.

However his Train-Hotel that is mentions ran a few trips many years ago, consisting of a PV tacked on the back of "The Adirondack", and them seemed to fade into oblivion.

The man is a conman.

restricted_speed Wrote:
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> PRSL-recall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > There are some that do have a vision.
>
> And it is no surprise that this man is Canadian.

What does this mean?

cabsignaldrop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wish the venture luck.  I'd also really like to
> see some sort of enhanced coach service in
> addition to traditional sleeping cars.  I would
> think something along the lines of Delta's
> semi-private lay flat Delta One Suite could be
> very popular, if done right. 

Can't get enough in the typical railroad passenger car width to make it economical. A widebody aircraft cabin can be up to twice as wide.

when I rode the Adirondack southbound, it kept a leisurely pace between Central Station and the border.  Maybe 35-40 mph at most. And then an hour for US Customs, which it occasionally exceeded.

This is a lovely ride, through great scenery.  But I wouldn't see a 35 mph average scheduled speed to Albany as a great attraction. Seven hours plus, to travel 250 miles.

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> njmidland Wrote:
>
> > Or you could run this train on the traditional
> D&H
> > routing into Windsor Station and avoid CN.  Of
> > course Windsor is not set up for on the
> ground customs.
>
> Not a bad idea. Candiac to Montreal already has
> commuter trains. If they continued to do Customs
> at Rouses Point, then it could also stop at
> Montreal West. But they would have to get more
> Amtrak crews to qualify on that and to speak
> French regardless. Lucien L'Allier has open air
> platforms lacking canopies and head house with few
> amenities, something on the order of LIRR's
> Hunterspoint Avenue that has a canopy, but not
> Canadian winters. 

And it is almost two blocks west of Windsor. But still well connected into the STM system.

Coming back to the article, the proposal at present is so hopelessly underfunded that it stands next to zero chance of coming to fruition. Yet another silly pipe dream for the time being.