Passenger Trains > Available pool of passenger train management talent

Many people are aghast at what some of Amtrak former airline managers, now passenger train managers, are proposing to do the trains in all categories.

For many of us, it is reminiscent of the early days of Amtrak when the prevailing thought was it was going to take the savvy of the airline guys to rescue passenger trains from the staid, "we've always done it this way" managers of the private railroads and the former Pullman Company. As was typical in the 1970s (a decade often best forgotten or overlooked for those of us who lived through it), it was thought that what now seems to be garish colors and lots of plastic and vinyl was the answer to attract "modern" passengers to old trains. The thoughtful and passenger-friendly colors of the Pullman Company's sleeping cars and the private railroad's coaches were tossed for orange, purple, red, and a rather crass use of "earth tones" to "spice things up."

For many of us, the first impression of this new decor was horror, bewilderment, and a longing that cooler heads would prevail. It took a long time for that to happen.

Which brings us to today. While today's Superliner and Viewliner fleets, along with the refresh of the Amfleet cars all sport a return to softer, more relaxing and inviting color schemes, one has to wonder what the future will bring.

Where are the people coming from making these decisions?

All of the passenger train managers of nearly a half a century ago are long retired and/or not of this world, anymore. Along with their passing went a tremendous amount of industry intellectual knowledge and wisdom gathered from experience and experimentation. With the exception of some good books on the subject, all of that is now lost. Even those of us who remember riding the great streamliners which were still left in the 1960s are fewer and farther between, and most of us are out of the workforce.

If you are assembling a cadre of passenger train managers, where do those people come from?

The generation of managers which was trained by the now lost private railroad passenger train managers are now also retired or gone.

Because Amtrak is a ward of the federal government, managers and employees there often more mimic a bureaucratic outlook than a professional railroad outlook. Any partnerships which may have existed between management and labor unions has gone away, and an inspector general's office at times seems to be the only group interested in maintaining standards and professionalism.

Annual injections of free federal and state money takes away stockholder and Wall Street accountability, whether that is good or bad. When managers know in just a matter of months there will be a fresh injection of capital, worry about financial innovation is minimized.

What pools of passenger train talent exist? Not many, if any, especially when it comes to long distance trains.

The commuter agencies and transit agencies, such as New Jersey Transit or Metra or Metrolink provide a pool of talent for operating passenger trains, but, these are operations which are short-distance coach train operations, where first class or food service operations are non-existent. These folks know about maintenance and operations and stations, but not about amenities or overnight service.

Brightline/soon-to-be Virgin Trains USA made an early decision to recruit one or two railroad industry grayheads to get things started, but very quickly pivoted to recruiting a complete outside team of hospitality industry professionals for onboard services and stations. There was a large group of former Disney employees who became Brightline innovators. Many of the Brightline operations people came from New Jersey Transit, and equipment maintenance is handled by manufacturer Siemens. This seems to be a winning combination, based on results, growth, and projections.

State departments of transportation often have good managers who understand their states want/need regional passenger rail, but, being political agencies under whomever is the current governor and which political party is in the majority of the state legislature, they are constrained for long term planning, and often victimized by political appointee turnover every four years. Some states, such as the Commonwealth of Virginia, happily have put in place long term funding mechanisms which are less reliant on political turnover, but still operate somewhat at the whims of politicians. Other states, such as North Carolina, Wisconsin, California, Oregon and Washington State have robust enough passenger rail programs that they have become ingrained into the state budgets and government operations. Not many state bureaucrats migrate from state agencies to operating passenger railroads, and, when they do, still have a government/bureaucrat mindset.

The hospitality industry is known for surviving through boom and bust cycles. They are accustomed to "adapt and change" and have learned to read their customers wants and desires. These are the same people who took free local telephone calls from hotel rooms to fee-based, and learned that expense account long distance calls would be acceptable at stratospheric levels. Their current cash cow is the fee for "good" wi-fi hotel service, versus the non-secure, slower speeds offered as part of a room charge. Some have even introduced guilt programs to coerce guests to leave tips in rooms for maids, helping lower the payroll costs for housekeeping departments. Plus, these are the same people that "in the name of green" try to convince guests to reuse towels, drastically cutting down on laundry costs.

The cruise industry has been booming ever since the Love Boat was introduced to television audiences 40 years ago. These people have learned how to cajole passengers to open their wallets multiple times a day, add fees for routine things, and even shame their passengers into paying for onboard employees through relentless tipping programs.

And, then, we are back to the airline industry, where Amtrak started almost half a century ago. Many correctly believe the majority of practices of the airline industry are not compatible with passenger trains; it's a fish and fowl situation. However, looking at the good parts, there are some things that Amtrak's current crop of former airline managers have brought to their new gig. Amtrak's marketing and public relations has never been better, nor more professional appearing. Amtrak has finally joined the ranks of "the big boys" when it comes to public presentations. While the greatest two sore subjects are dining cars and the viability of long distance trains, the current cadre of former airline managers is about to issue an RFP to replace all of the Amfleet cars, and their appears to be a return of a safety culture to Amtrak, which was lost under its previous regime.

The ideal cadre of Amtrak or other passenger train operating managers is a combination of all of these pools of talent. Because there is no passenger train professional pool of talent available that isn't colored by being part of a government organization, the best options are to pick and choose from all of the available pools for specific talents and creativity, as well as budget adherence.

There has to be a good solution somewhere.
 

Cruise lines seem to work well with a ship captain, a hotel manager, and a cruise director. Each has responsibility for one part of a customer's total satisfaction.

On Viking Ocean cruises, you get daily surveys on just about everything. The food, the excursions, the lecturers, the time in port, etc.

Posted from Android

Start at the top we could use a CEO with management background in transportation, who wants the system to succeed, knows accounting and isn’t deceitful.  There’s talent out there. 



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/12/19 12:58 by Flyer92122.

Without a profit motive, and with a cumbersome structure to deal with, Amtrak would have a nearly impossible time attracting truly fine management talent.

-John 

I don’t have time for this but can not resist.
you are right on all points except perhaps your very last one
AND, there are a few out there,  but they are few and far between.  I probably know most of them.
Many are retired,  but many are still active and even interested.

But the Key question is still unanswered.  What solution are you looking for.  Should the long haul trains be just a land cruse experience?  Do we really need a Transcontinental rail passenger net work, or is this just novelty transportation.

mdo

Amtrak needs a "Love Train" cable TV channel starring impossibly attractive young people.

Thoughtful points have been raised. I don't think it is necessary though to have a person specifically trained and experienced with rail passenger service. However there just could be candidates with this background at least in different commuter agencies who have various other professional backgrounds besides. Also it would seem to be a very basic to have someone who at least has the interest and does have experience with rail travel themselves. This is not a job for someone who is primarily geared and/or experienced for air transportation AND who thinks that everyone else in their right mind who is going any distance should travel that way. Flyer91222 is right on here, the qualifications he mentions are those that certainly exist.

It appears to me that VIA RAIL has been headed up by management exceeding that of Amtrak. These folks were found somewhere. Also, Ms. Patricia Quinn of Northern New England Passenger Rail Authority has had the expertise to bring about the restoration of Maine rail passenger service (Downeaster) in spite of all odds and has seen train frequencies explode and the route lengthened. Many in that area said it couldn't be done. She very quickly admits that she did NOT have any previous experience in the rail passenger business. However she is a go-getter and gets things done. I know that she is not the only person of that character out there. The problem I thnk is more with those who bring people like Anderson into the position he's in. 

As far as long-distance trains being novelty transportation, that subject has been covered many times. I can understand why it would be considered as that by those who (as referred to above) would never consider a longer distance by anything other than air and think that everyone else should have the same mindset. However they don't.

I agree with PRSL-recall about Patricia Quinn, she has done a fine job of restoring a small portion of what once was a pretty extensive passenger rail system to Maine, which, I believe, was the first state to completely lose passenger rail service and when a developer demolished the impressive Portland railroad terminal in the middle of the night, also became a state interested in historic building preservation. Even when a passenger rail operation is relatively small as is the Downeaster, the management has to deal with all of the same players as does a national system: it is only smaller. I have done, in a totally different field, top management of small organizations and also national organizations and I found the larger ones were much easier to manage!  I think Ms Quinn would be a great chief executive of Amtrak.

PRSL-recall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ... Many in that area said it couldn't be
> done. She very quickly admits that she did NOT
> have any previous experience in the rail passenger
> business....

Maybe that is why she was able to get it done.

Ed Ellis is available...
 

The elephant in the room is the fact that Amtrak has been provided starvation level funding for almost it's entire existence.   Not to mention the John Mica style micromanagement from your Government.

Sure every once in awhile there's renewal level burst of capital funding, but how long is the rebuilt infrastructure from the 1990's NECIP program supposed to last?

Brian

 

Lure Brian Rosenwald out of retirement as a VP for customer services again or someone like him with a vision. The CEO has to have a capable management team and not micro manage them. The CEO should oversee and deal with stakeholders, let the soldiers do the rest. None of which is happening now.

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sure every once in awhile there's renewal level
> burst of capital funding, but how long is the

Aside from regular appropriations

NECIP $2 billion (1978-1983)
NHRIP $2 billion (1991-2000)
TRA $2 billion (1997)
ARRA/PRIAA $9 billion (2009-2010)
etc.

>rebuilt infrastructure from the 1990's NECIP
> program supposed to last?

40-50 years?

Flyer92122 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Start at the top we could use a CEO with
> management background in transportation, who wants
> the system to succeed.

You'll have to start further up the chain of command from Amtrak's CEO if you want success.  

abyler Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> choodude Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Sure every once in awhile there's renewal level
> > burst of capital funding, but how long is the
>
> Aside from regular appropriations
>
> NECIP $2 billion (1978-1983)
> NHRIP $2 billion (1991-2000)
> TRA $2 billion (1997)
> ARRA/PRIAA $9 billion (2009-2010)
> etc.
>
> >rebuilt infrastructure from the 1990's NECIP
> > program supposed to last?
>
> 40-50 years?



ARRA was only 1.3 billion

https://www.metro-magazine.com/rail/news/283090/amtrak-receives-1-3-billion-grant


PRIAA is a multi year Amtrak re-authorization.  You may recall that an authorization bill does not actually give money to any program.  PRIAA is why we are losing dining service.

Brian



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/19 05:39 by choodude.

Touché. I doubt anyone in here dispises what the Administration stands for more than me. Trying to keep it on Amtrak though you are 100 percent right the calls are coming from Mulveney and Chao enabled by Trump hiring these ideological decision makers.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Flyer92122 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Start at the top we could use a CEO with
> > management background in transportation, who
> wants
> > the system to succeed.
>
> You'll have to start further up the chain of
> command from Amtrak's CEO if you want success.  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/19 06:43 by Flyer92122.

France made the decision that TGV would replace short haul air services 30 years ago. And restricted air slots to enforce the rule.

Highway tolls, high gasoline and diesel taxes, etc balance out the transport map. Local buses, rural rai!, etc play a role.

The US subsidizes competing modes of travel, then wonders why it can be such a mess...

Posted from Android

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> France made the decision that TGV would replace
> short haul air services 30 years ago. And
> restricted air slots to enforce the rule.
>
> Highway tolls, high gasoline and diesel taxes, etc
> balance out the transport map. Local buses, rural
> rai!, etc play a role.
>
> The US subsidizes competing modes of travel, then
> wonders why it can be such a mess...
>
> Posted from Android

I would love to travel this way myself however how many of their countries can you fit inside of ours? 
France land mass=  248,573 square miles  
Conus land mass=  3,119,884 square miles 
How would enough short haul corridors be built to replicate the French concept and where would  they be placed?  Who would decide this? Who would pay for it ?  



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/14/19 16:40 by Molino.

The French have a top down from of government. So, the government decided that new high speed rail lines would be built. And they were.

And that short haul airline routes would be restricted. And they were.

And, tolls, has taxes, etc would be imposed...

The people vote for new leaders in a raucous and competitive system.

Posted from Android

choodude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> abyler Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Aside from regular appropriations
> >
> > NECIP $2 billion (1978-1983)
> > NHRIP $2 billion (1991-2000)
> > TRA $2 billion (1997)
> > ARRA/PRIAA $9 billion (2009-2010)
>
> ARRA was only 1.3 billion
>
> https://www.metro-magazine.com/rail/news/283090/am
> trak-receives-1-3-billion-grant

Plus the $10 billion in HSR money granted out in ARRA and the FY2010 budget minus that which went to California HSR.  All the rest of that HSR money went to various Amtrak routes including nearly $1 billion for various northeast corridor projects which was on top of a significant amount of the $1.3 billion going to NEC projects.

> PRIAA is a multi year Amtrak re-authorization. 
> You may recall that an authorization bill does not

The money was authorized in every individual budget plus ARRA.. I wasn't even counting that but if you wish to reconcile the totals you can see that the law was essentially fully funded.

> actually give money to any program.  PRIAA is why
> we are losing dining service.

The F&B mandate has been around since David Stockman in 1981 and is quite reasonable.  Most taxpayers don't get the concept of subsidizing your steak and beer and think you should pay for them.