Passenger Trains > Should public transit be free to riders?

The NY Times looks at several small scale tests of a plan to make bus and rail travel free to passengers.  Although previous efforts in Denver and Austin were considered unsuccessful, other programs have expanded accessibility for poor people.  Now, Boston is looking at the concept.

Mayor Marty Walsh notes that the bus authority jobs are good jobs, with some of the "highest paid bus drivers in the country", as well as mechanics, fuelers, cleaners. Somebody has to pay for these jobs, and vague promises of economic growth aren't going to do it.  Nobody mentioned homeless people camping out on buses and light rail, but that's likely not far off.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/us/free-public-transit.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=US%20News

No its not free someone has to pay for it and makes sense to charge the people using it at least something. Plus otherwise you will have the homeless using it all day to keep warm.

Posted from Android

NO !

Homeless "camping out" on BART is already happening. One can ride for almost free now, anyway. Get on a BART train at one of the city center stops, ride around on the trains and get off one station from where you started, riding just short of three hours. Exit the system and your fare will be as if you only rode that one short distance. Then re-enter and do it again! The nice train is more comfortable than sitting in a doorway where another derelict has pissed, especially if it is too cold, too hot or too rainy. In between naps, there is the scenery outside, except in the subways.

I figured that out in the first week BART was operating. It was a way to kill time when I had an hours-long break between classes at college. Me, study in the library? No, go for a train (okay, transit) ride, which at that time cost 25 cents.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/20 06:26 by GenePoon.

NO WAY!

Posted from Android

Wow guess I was at the wrong agency for twenty years along with severl other agency workers. No it depends on where they are and local wages ours did not match other county and city mechanics. But things like that get posted and others feel we are over paid. I still had to maintain a 30K tool box there like most other places require.  Oh and on another note, yes we could get fired yes we could loose our job due to on the job injuries, no we were not secure for life we also had very poor managers most of the time running the  place. Some are still there after 30yrs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/20 07:43 by BAB.

Of course not. Why would anyone even think that's OK? Even in socialist European countries you  have to pay to ride.  Just another element of all the free stuff being offered by progressives to capture votes while the rest of us who actually work or worked for a living end up paying for it.

Read the article on the BBC website about a bloke that has been riding night buses in London for 21 years!!

Posted from iPhone

There have been some Free Fare areas or routes on some systems over the years, as well as some university bus systems, and open to the public. 

BEFORE even thinking about free public transit,  there needs to be plans to make public transit MORE safe.  crime and INTIMIDATION tend to discourage some riders..........

66

Yes!

John Webb
Trinidad, CA

Hell NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GenePoon Wrote:
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> Homeless "camping out" on BART is already happening. One can ride for almost free now, anyway.

Regretably, the Portland OR transit systems have the same problem, but worse, I suspect.  As it is an 'honor fare' system with a far-insufficient number of fare inspectors, I observed homeless individuals camped out at the rear of a number of trains/cars.  If and when an inspector required them to exit, they'd simply catch the next train and do it all again.  And I was there when the weather was in the 60s & 70s.  I would expect that the winter months finds many more homeless keeping warm while touring the city for free.

What's the solution for the homeless everywhere?  Perhaps if the big cities purchased empty factories and warehouses and convert them to dormitories with free or very low-cost overnight facilities would do the trick.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/15/20 09:37 by BRAtkinson.

BRAtkinson Wrote:

>
> What's the solution for the homeless everywhere?  Perhaps if the big cities purchased empty factories and warehouses and convert them to dormitories with free or very low-cost overnight facilities would do the trick.

IMHO some percentage of homeless folks are mentally ill.  In the old days they would have been shipped off to mental institution warehouses and kept out of sight.  It seems we don't want to spend the money to warehouse such folks, let alone properly care for them.

IMHO A large percentage of folks are not able to find employment for a large variety of reasons.  Jobs will take care of these folks, but I don't think there is a simple answer for how to do that.  Perhaps the much publicized economic boom will eventually tinkle down.

Brian

The WSJ had a very similar article today, but focused on busses.
in some smaller communities, bus transit has been declining for years and this is one way to turn it around. Uber mentioned as one of the causes, but the decline has been going on long before Uber. 

Boston was mentioned as well, but one MBTA employee said many busses are filled now, so why give it away? They can improve the equipment and service with money that otherwise would be lost. MBTA also claimed the "advocates" are severely underestimating the cost. 

I think small local transit systems which operate mostly empty buses anyway would be a candidate for no fares. The amount of money collected is pretty small and there is the collection costs.
There would probably be little additional capital expense since when I see buses they are pretty empty.

Big cities this woud be a disaster if implemented 24/7.  In Chicago rail transit and some buses can be very crowded.  Increased capacity comes at a high price.
Chicago already has some kind of discounted system, special prices for seniors, students and those on certain assistance.  Of course those programs are already abused.
I enjoy seeing students with their discounted rides with iphones, trendy clothes getting off and then eating at fast food near their school.

And here is a news flash, some pretty good earners ride the system also.

Bob



 

goduckies Wrote:
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> Plus otherwise you will have the homeless using it all day to keep warm.

That's happening now regardless of whether or not fares are charged.  People riding without paying are seldom punished for doing so. Bus drivers are now trained not to enforce fare compliance because it might lead to a confrontation that would result in their injury or even death.  

And people wonder why ridership figures are down and patrons flee to private automobiles as soon as they have the financial capability to own and operate a car or use an Uber or Lyft.  
 

a search of these public transit systems was interesting:

1.  bart crime rate (northern california)

2. chicago transit crime

3. minneapolis metro transit crime

would making these transit systems free to riders be beneficial?

66

robj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think small local transit systems which operate
> mostly empty buses anyway would be a candidate for
> no fares. The amount of money collected is pretty
> small and there is the collection costs.
> There would probably be little additional capital
> expense since when I see buses they are pretty
> empty.
>
> Big cities this woud be a disaster if implemented
> 24/7.  In Chicago rail transit and some buses can
> be very crowded.  Increased capacity comes at a
> high price.
> Chicago already has some kind of discounted
> system, special prices for seniors, students and
> those on certain assistance.  Of course those
> programs are already abused.
> I enjoy seeing students with their discounted
> rides with iphones, trendy clothes getting off and
> then eating at fast food near their school.
>
> And here is a news flash, some pretty good earners
> ride the system also.
>
> Bob

I used to sit on the Board of an organization that operated the very small rural County bus system. IIRC the farebox only brought in about 10% of the money.
Nevertheless, I think folks should pay something!

TJY
>
>
>
>  

snip

I used to sit on the Board of an organization that operated the very small rural County bus system. IIRC the farebox only brought in about 10% of the money.
Nevertheless, I think folks should pay something!

TJY
>
>
I agree in theory but from a practical point of view if you are going to get the most value for your public money???  Of course this would not apply to dial-a-ride systems since if you offered free rides your costs could rise.   My idea being if you offer free rides to low ridership systems the subsidy per rider could actually decrease ie you are provideing greater public service for ittle additional cost.

Bob