Passenger Trains > Vermont getting closer to extension to Burlington!

Hope is rail line ready in 2021 for new Vermont Amtrak route
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS JANUARY 19, 2020 11:20 AM
BURLINGTON, Vt.

Vermont transportation officials said they are hopeful upgrades to the rail line between Rutland and Burlington can be ready sometime next year, which will make it possible to resume Amtrak rail service between the two cities.

Officials have been working for years to upgrade the 75 miles of rail and complete a number of other projects, such as station improvements and rail crossings. One of the major projects on the route, a new rail tunnel through downtown Middlebury, is slated for completion next year.

“The reason I think we’re getting so much closer is the one remaining major project that needs to be done is well underway,” Rutland Mayor David Allaire said, noting the progress to the Middlebury tunnels.


Allaire, who serves on the Governor’s Rail Advisory Council, said he was hopeful the line will be done by the end of next year, the Rutland Herald reported.

Once the improvements are completed, officials are planning to have Amtrak's Ethan Allen Express, which now travels between New York City and Rutland, continue to Burlington.

A number of other tasks remain, like crossings and stations.


In Burlington, officials are working to determine where the Amtrak train be parked overnight and what the impacts on the surrounding neighborhood will be.

“Construction is anticipated to begin this summer on the improvements that need to be made in the Burlington area,” said Michele Boomhower, director of policy, planning and intermodal development for the Vermont Agency of Transportation.

She said the siting issues in Burlington are expected to be resolved next month.

“Our goal has always been to get the Ethan Allen to Burlington," Boomhower said.

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Vermont has an estimated population of just under 624k. It blows my mind, no completely blows my mind that they would spend money to increase the route of the Ethan Allen. The most unbelievable thing is a tunnel under Middlebury VT with a population of 8496. Just to ask the question, where is all this money coming from? 

Jim

Vermonters evidently do not want to be entirely dependent on cars and buses, whose intercity bus service has largely collapsed under Greyhound's incompetence. 

If they rule out terminating the train in Burlington overnight and must send it to Essex Jct, the extension will be delayed for as long as it takes to upgrade the Burlington - Essex Jct segment. 

Absolutely no doubt the Greyhound took an excellent intercity bus system ran by Vermont Transit and has it into the ground. It's just amazing that a small state has the resources to make a second state supported train happen when most states can't make one get beyond wish stage.

Jim

tq-07fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Absolutely no doubt the Greyhound took an
> excellent intercity bus system ran by Vermont
> Transit and has it into the ground. It's just
> amazing that a small state has the resources to
> make a second state supported train happen when
> most states can't make one get beyond wish stage.

You mean won't make. Look at Penn-DOT's attitude west of Harrisburgh. 
I am far more apt to spend my tourist money in Vermont than New Hampshire because they know what butters their bread.  



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/20 11:18 by joemvcnj.

Where is all the money coming from?  Look up the Vermont AOT Rail Division annual budget, and you'll find a large portion of it is from Federal dollars.  Vermont's Rai Division has two staff members who do nothing but look for Federal programs from which Vermont can scoop up Federal dollars--including Federal money that is approved for projects in other states, but is turned down by the other states of whatever reasons.  They are very successful at it!  Also, Vermont is a leach when it comes to funding its passenger trains.  If you look at AMTRAK's timetable, you will find that the ETHAN ALLEN is "a New York and Vermont supported train"; had the State of New York not stepped up to the plate when AMTRAK raised its fees by $800,000 a year a while back, the train would have died at that point.  Few people realize that today both Massachusetts and Connecticut financially help support the VERMONTER--and Vermont wants more help from both as well as the Province of Quebec when that train is eventually extended to Montreal; there are transportation officials in Massachusetts who aren't particularly happy that Vermont gets credit for VERMONTER passengers traveling to points south from Greenfield, Northampton and Holyoke.  After all, Massachusetts did invest tens of millions of dollars purchasing and rebuilding the rail line between East Northfield and Springfield, MA.  So where will the money come from to support operating costs of the extended trains come from when they aqctually begin running.  Right now, nobody knows what the additional operating subsidies will be as AMTRAK hasn't provided Vermont with "figures"--but some estimates are it may end costing a much a $2 million per train per year.  Vermont is always complaining that "it's a small state and can't afford a lot"--but if you can sucker others into "paying the way" for you, well, why not?

The dinner train that operates out of Burlington, VT is stored in the South Burlington Yard - where it can hardly be seen or heard. Not sure why they couldn't tuck the Ethan Allen Express in there too!

Sounds like the Vermont Rail Division's employees know how to play the game. Kudos to them.

Good for Vermont my dad's home state!

tq-07fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vermont has an estimated population of just under
> 624k. It blows my mind, no completely blows my
> mind that they would spend money to increase the
> route of the Ethan Allen. The most unbelievable
> thing is a tunnel under Middlebury VT with a
> population of 8496. Just to ask the question,
> where is all this money coming from? 

The "tunnel" in Middlebury means they are decking over the short cut in the middle of town that passes under Merchants Row and Main St.

What's the real problem in finding a place in Burlington to "park" the ETHAN ALLEN overnight?  Quite simply: one has to understand the mentality of A HANDFUL of Vermonters--there are those who, in their opinions, don't want to spoil "the pristine beauty" of Vermont.  Unfortunately, they believe an AMTRAK train "parked"  anywhere in the downtown Burlington area will do just that!  Just about anything to do with railroad expansion in Vermont in going to be challenged by NIMBY's for one reason or another.  A friend of mine, who is a former member of the Vermont House, explains the NIMBY situation regarding railroads in the State well. If you get one NIMBY bitching about something, it's probably nothing to be concerned about.  If two or more NIMBY's get involved, you've got to take notice.  If the NIMBY's get the politicians and/or the press involved, it spells TROUBLE--and if the NIMBY's don't get their way, it likely means one or more lawsuits which can tie a project up in the courts for months or years!  Let's hope court action doesn't happen with the Burlington train "parking issue".  In the non-distant past, issues between the Vermont Railway and the Town of Shelburne over a salt shed/railyard and Middlebury NIMBY's vs. Vermont Agency of Transportation over the design of the Middlebury "tunnel project" have resolved by all involved sitting down together and working out an amicable solution.  However, it took a court judge in the Shelburne/VTR feud to tell the parties involved "to stop acting like a bunch of kids" and talk LOGICALLY at the bargain table like adults.  Yes, the Vermonters that some folks in neighboring states call "woodchucks" and "hillbillies" can actually figure out how to do things peacefully--if they WANT to!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/20 00:17 by steam1246.

Does Vermont really know where its bread is buttered when it comes to tourist promotion?  If one has been paying attention to the recent deliberations in the Vermont legislation over the proposed state budget for the upcoming fiscal year, it's well known that tourism folks in Vermont are very concerned that the State is loosing its share of the New England tourist market--with neighboring New Hampshire being of major concern.  An additional $500,000 is being requested for "out of state" tourist promotion--which the tourism folks say "is really just a drop in the bucket".                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Going back about 40 years, if anyone remembers, Vermont had a major railroad tourist attraction.  Steamtown, U. S. A. WAS Vermont's #2 Summer tourist attraction--behind only the Shelburne Museum.  But Vermont did little to promote Steamtown--or for that matter, support it in any way!  Rather ironic, isn't it, that the Steamtown National Historic Site in Scranton, PA today has a multi-million dollar Federal budget.  The Green Mountain RR, now part of the Vermont Rail System, took over excursion train operations in Vermont after Steamtown departed for PA; GMRC managed to eventually attract, at several different locations around VT, about half the tourists annually that Steamtown did--but, again, the State and the local communities did little to support the GMRC's efforts.  Today, the GMRC operates "regular excursion" trains only on a five day a week schedule out of Chester during the Fall Foliage season; other "regular excursion" trains are on "a Charter only" basis--which obligates the charter operator and not the railroad to figure out how to fill the seats.  In the past couple of  years, the Vermont Rail System has begun operating a two-evening a week Spring through Fall dinner train out of Burlington--which, by most reports, is doing quite well.  Let's hope the State of Vermont--and local--tourist promotion people give this dinner train the attention it deserves.  Hopefully, it won't follow its tourist railroad predaccessors "down the tubes".

steam1246 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In the past couple of  years, the Vermont Rail System has begun
> operating a two-evening a week Spring through Fall
> dinner train out of Burlington--which, by most
> reports, is doing quite well.  Let's hope the
> State of Vermont--and local--tourist promotion
> people give this dinner train the attention it
> deserves.  Hopefully, it won't follow its tourist
> railroad predaccessors "down the tubes".

And this is what I don't understand........

The dinner train has grown in popularity and is pretty darn successful - saw it this past summer in Burlington and it was a busy operation. I guess the train is an "eyesore" for Vermonters as it sits at Burlington Union Station for about an hour before its departure???? Diesel locomotives on both ends of the train with a HEP power car..... Granted it, the consist is not too quiet coming or going in Burlington. Amtrak's Vermonter train is much quieter and in/out of Essex Junction much quicker than the dinner train. Why can't it be tucked into the freight rail yard just south of the Burlington Train Station like the dinner train for overnight? 

As has been mentioned, the State of Vermont has thrived on tourist dollars. The Ethan Allen Express' extension should be a welcomed addition, with rail service on the east side of the State and now the west side too. Train will stop at three major college towns along the way from Rutland to Burlington! It's long over due!

Does anyone know how they will handle the station stop at Rutland when this extension to Burlington comes to be? Pull forward to Rutland Station, and then a reverse move/back up move?                                                                                                                                   

During the summer of 1976, Steamtown operated the Bi-Centennial Steam Expedition. Steel canopies remain from this service at many stations.Half the summer it ran from Bellows Falls to Burlington and back; the 2nd half from Burlington to Bennington and back. The train laid up in the freight yard south of the station overnight for the 2nd phase. Now there are apartments all over downtown and along the tracks and the NIMBYs never thought a train would lay up right besides them. Such is life when residences are put up next to RR tracks that realtors probably said they hardly ever use those tracks. 

tq-07fan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vermont has an estimated population of just under
> 624k. It blows my mind, no completely blows my
> mind that they would spend money to increase the
> route of the Ethan Allen. The most unbelievable
> thing is a tunnel under Middlebury VT with a
> population of 8496. Just to ask the question,
> where is all this money coming from? 
>
> Jim

For approx $70M, VTrans is replacing 2 nearly 100 year old road bridges (that need replacing) over the RR RoW that are 300 feet apart with a box tunnel (that will improve vertical rail clearance from 18' to 21' enabling double stacks should there ever be any)
http://www.townofmiddlebury.org/living_and_working_in_middlebury/downtown_bridges_project.php
Project Presentation: https://vtrans.vermont.gov/sites/aot/files/projectsites/middlebury/MiddleburyBR_Public%20Presentation%206.4.19.pdf

Vermont is very good at getting playing the game at getting federal money. Their downtown commuter bus terminal got 80% federal funding.

"The transit hub cost $7.7 million and was “on budget, on schedule,” according to Carlson. About 80 percent came from the feds, 10 percent from the state and 10 percent from local funds. "

https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessage/archives/2016/10/13/seven-things-to-know-about-burlingtons-new-bus-station

How big a deal would it be to improve the Burlington - Essex Jct track?  FRA class II should be sufficient, F 25 P 40.  Seems like this project should happen anyway to facilitate the possibility of a Canadian extension.

Vermonter is what VT-DOT envisions extending to Montreal, not the Ethan Allen. 
If both were to be extended, aside from a lot more operating subsides, you would have 3 trains per day arriving and departing Montreal within a few hours of each other, all from Montreal Central station Track 23 with Customs. If it takes them an hour to empty or load each train, with people handled in batches of 20, the trains could start delaying each other.  

steam1246 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Where is all the money coming from?  Look up the
> Vermont AOT Rail Division annual budget, and
> you'll find a large portion of it is from Federal
> dollars.  Vermont's Rai Division has two staff
> members who do nothing but look for Federal
> programs from which Vermont can scoop up Federal
> dollars--including Federal money that is approved
> for projects in other states, but is turned down
> by the other states of whatever reasons.  They
> are very successful at it!  Also, Vermont is a
> leach when it comes to funding its passenger
> trains.  If you look at AMTRAK's timetable, you
> will find that the ETHAN ALLEN is "a New York and
> Vermont supported train"; had the State of New
> York not stepped up to the plate when AMTRAK
> raised its fees by $800,000 a year a while back,
> the train would have died at that point.  Few
> people realize that today both Massachusetts and
> Connecticut financially help support the
> VERMONTER--and Vermont wants more help from both
> as well as the Province of Quebec when that train
> is eventually extended to Montreal; there are
> transportation officials in Massachusetts who
> aren't particularly happy that Vermont gets credit
> for VERMONTER passengers traveling to points south
> from Greenfield, Northampton and Holyoke.  After
> all, Massachusetts did invest tens of millions of
> dollars purchasing and rebuilding the rail line
> between East Northfield and Springfield, MA.  So
> where will the money come from to support
> operating costs of the extended trains come from
> when they aqctually begin running.  Right now,
> nobody knows what the additional operating
> subsidies will be as AMTRAK hasn't provided
> Vermont with "figures"--but some estimates are it
> may end costing a much a $2 million per train per
> year.  Vermont is always complaining that "it's a
> small state and can't afford a lot"--but if you
> can sucker others into "paying the way" for you,
> well, why not?

What I do not know is if VT State Government has ever seriously paid attention to what Amtrak is charging. It seems that others have more concern over whether State-supported services
have been a source of $ used to shore up the NE Corridor. I wonder if VT is paying any attention to this issue. It is clear that VT wants the trains, so wonder if this is causing blindsight. Amtrak's finances are in desparate need of transparency. As for.AMTRAK not providing  "...Vermont with "figures"." this is Amtrak's norm. They don't want to comment on anything they don't want to including the recent $25,000 issue over the handicapped. They are an organization of secrecy. How long will it take for the bums to be thrown out...especially with this kind of answer (NONE!)  given every time serious questions are directed their way?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/20 18:18 by PRSL-recall.

As a very young teenager in the late 1960s, my family went up to Vermont on vacation. Being the only railfan in the family,  Dad and mom were kind enough to take in a visit to Steamtown USA which included a train ride to Chester and back. The train that day was pulled by an Alco swticher instead of steam, and I was told by an old timer on the train that steam had been banned by the public health board! Indeed, I received a button that said: "Steam is Clean!" or something to that effect.  (Ufortunately, I have lost it.) So you had the Nimbys in Vermont back then too. It is no wonder that Steamtown moved to Scranton.

But you have to understand I recall the locomotives and equipment on display at Steamtown at Bellows Falls being stored outside in the open. With Scranton you have shop buildings, turntable, etc.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com

steam1246 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>                 
> Going back about 40 years, if anyone
> remembers, Vermont had a major railroad tourist
> attraction.  Steamtown, U. S. A. WAS Vermont's #2
> Summer tourist attraction--behind only the
> Shelburne Museum.  But Vermont did little to
> promote Steamtown--or for that matter, support it
> in any way!  



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/20 16:57 by wabash2800.