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Date: 02/10/20 06:31
NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: Lackawanna484

NJ.com has an editorial about the lack on interest in the Amtrak / NJ Transit Gateway Tunnel project. Infrastructure was mentioned just once in the US State of the Union address, and that was to promote the highway re-authorization.  Infrastructure had been a more prominent part of prior addresses.

Representative Mikie Sherill (D-NJ) represents some of the affected NJ Transit area, and has been a champion for construction.  Unfortunately, she doesn't have the seniority of former Representative Rod Frelinghuysen (R-NJ), who brokered a deal with key Democrats and Republicans to fund the tunnel in 2017. That deal apparently collapsed as the result of squabbles among various NY real estate developers and their two important, but opposed, allies.


https://www.nj.com/opinion/2020/02/gateway-2020-a-tunnel-in-peril-and-an-oblivious-president-this-is-a-recording-editorial.html



Date: 02/10/20 09:15
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: TAW

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Infrastructure was mentioned just once in the US
> State of the Union address, and that was to
> promote the highway re-authorization. 

As a German colleague observed during an annual Transportation Research Board meeting at which the raio of highway folks to railroad folks was 200:1, apparently in the US, railroads are not tansportation.

TAW



Date: 02/10/20 09:51
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: railstiesballast

To get the project the attention it needs, it has to be discussed on "Fox and Friends".
Otherwise it is not even a known fact to the decision makers.
Just saying....



Date: 02/10/20 09:51
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: MirandaDepot

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> As a German colleague observed during an annual
> Transportation Research Board meeting at which the
> raio of highway folks to railroad folks was 200:1,
> apparently in the US, railroads are not
> tansportation.
>
> TAW

That's an observation worth remembering. And, recall that government isn't very good at responding to things that happen in slow motion. Combine the two in order to create your expectations. 



Date: 02/10/20 09:51
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: radar

Trump is having one of his personal feuds with New York and would probably seek to block anything that might be beneficial to the city or its residents.  Funding would have to be concealed in a large appropriation bill.  The bright side is he doesn't read, so unless someone tells him, it could sneak through.



Date: 02/10/20 09:56
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: joemvcnj

A tiny percentage of its money is in Amtrak's approriation, or Chao and Mulvaney, who are literate, would take it out. 



Date: 02/10/20 10:29
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: ts1457

radar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Trump is having one of his personal feuds with New
> York and would probably seek to block anything
> that might be beneficial to the city or its
> residents.  Funding would have to be concealed in
> a large appropriation bill.  The bright side is
> he doesn't read, so unless someone tells him, it
> could sneak through.

Rep. Sherill (D-NJ) recently talked of Democrats not wanting to pass legislation (in general) because it would give President Trump a win. For what it is worth, she is a Bloomberg supporter and gave a big push for impeachment, I believe.

Though I would like to see the tunnels built and don't mind a reasonable amount of Federal support, I find it hard to get excited about. The politicians of New York and New Jersey can't even get the issues worked out among themselves.



Date: 02/10/20 11:06
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: jst3751

TAW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lackawanna484 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Infrastructure was mentioned just once in the
> US
> > State of the Union address, and that was to
> > promote the highway re-authorization. 
>
> As a German colleague observed during an annual
> Transportation Research Board meeting at which the
> raio of highway folks to railroad folks was 200:1,
> apparently in the US, railroads are not
> tansportation.
>
> TAW

Sadly, yes.

For the most part, railroads here in the US are privately owned, as opposed to government owned. 

Every other mode of transportation here in the US has the infrastructure either owned or controlled by the government. 

I believe that most countries that use passenger rail transportation effectively have government owned rail infrastructure. 

It is going to be nearly impossible here in the US to get passenger rail transportation to where it should be unless ownership/control of the infrastructure is done by the government.



Date: 02/10/20 11:30
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: howeld

>
> Sadly, yes.
>
> For the most part, railroads here in the US are
> privately owned, as opposed to government
> owned. 
>
> Every other mode of transportation here in the US
> has the infrastructure either owned or controlled
> by the government. 
>
> I believe that most countries that use passenger
> rail transportation effectively have government
> owned rail infrastructure. 
>
> It is going to be nearly impossible here in the US
> to get passenger rail transportation to where it
> should be unless ownership/control of the
> infrastructure is done by the government.

Except the infrastructure in question is government owned. Your entire point is just wrong on every level. Freight railroads do a much better job of maintaining their own property than the government would or could.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 02/10/20 11:34
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: joemvcnj

howeld Wrote:
>
> Except the infrastructure in question is
> government owned. Your entire point is just wrong
> on every level. Freight railroads do a much
> better job of maintaining their own property than
> the government would or could.

Depends. I thought the federal government did a pretty good job with Conrail, given the Penn Central et al mess they inherited, and was a better maintained and run railroad by the time Reagan sold it in the 1980's, or it could not have been sold. 



Date: 02/10/20 11:42
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: ts1457

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Depends. I thought the federal government did a
> pretty good job with Conrail, given the Penn
> Central et al mess they inherited, and was a
> better maintained and run railroad by the time
> Reagan sold it in the 1980's, or it could not have
> been sold. 

Conrail was saved by passing Staggers. CSX, NS and others were screwed out of traffic by Conrail closing up routes and jacking the hell out of switching charges on terminal railroads which it had gained control of by the shares of other railroads  it had inherited.

Conrail being drawn and quartered (well halved) was fitting justice.



Date: 02/10/20 12:05
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: Cumbresfan

joemvcnj Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A tiny percentage of its money is in Amtrak's
> approriation, or Chao and Mulvaney, who are
> literate, would take it out. 

Speaking of which, is there anything in today's Executive Branch budget for Amtrak in general, or is it completely lined out?



Date: 02/10/20 12:12
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: Lackawanna484

ts1457 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> radar Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Trump is having one of his personal feuds with
> New
> > York and would probably seek to block anything
> > that might be beneficial to the city or its
> > residents.  Funding would have to be concealed
> in
> > a large appropriation bill.  The bright side
> is
> > he doesn't read, so unless someone tells him,
> it
> > could sneak through.
>
> Rep. Sherill (D-NJ) recently talked of Democrats
> not wanting to pass legislation (in general)
> because it would give President Trump a win. For
> what it is worth, she is a Bloomberg supporter and
> gave a big push for impeachment, I believe.
>
> (SNIP)

Vox says the "few bills passed" claim is nonsense. It says the House has passed 350 bills in 2019, most of which don't see the light of day in the Senate.

Senate rules allow the Leader to decide what is voted on.

I would like to see open votes on the union de-certifiers appointed to Labor and NLRB jobs. Put people on the record.

Posted from Android



Date: 02/10/20 12:20
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: ts1457

Lackawanna484 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Vox says the "few bills passed" claim is nonsense.
> It says the House has passed 350 bills in 2019,
> most of which don't see the light of day in the
> Senate.

To avoid confusion, here is what she said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrRtwFC8_Xw



Date: 02/10/20 13:27
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: MEKoch

Finally the tunnel will have some sort of catastrophe and be shut down.  Then there will be a major blame session by various politicians.  Then miraculously money will be found and appropriated to build a new tunnel.  And five years later it will be finished.  



Date: 02/10/20 14:49
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: joemvcnj

Last week during a PM rush, there was a catenary power issue in one of the tunnels. Two hour delays with single-threading, and diesel fumes from rescue locomtives. The open cut west of NYPS and east of the portals has been covered over, though not air tight. 



Date: 02/10/20 14:57
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: pal77

Today there are 2 tracks under the Hudson having commuted to Penn for many years the biggest regular delay was not so much tunnel capacity but track space in Penn. So until that logistical problem is solved tunnels are virtually useless. The basement station proposed was crazy idea that would have been a commuting nightmare. Expanding NJT tracks with out run through to Long Island City also only alleviates part of the problem. Moving west to the post office creates a traffic nightmare upstairs putting it in Lincoln Tunnel traffic Zone. I have no solutions but until station capacity is increased the tunnels would not do anything.

Posted from iPhone



Date: 02/10/20 15:20
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: SpeederDriver

Will the east side project take some pressure  off NYP?



Date: 02/10/20 15:23
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: joemvcnj

Not really. MTA is not givng up any LIRR slots. A couple of Hunterspoint and many Brooklyn trains will be diverted. MNRR will start a new Hell Gate service. MTA owns both East River tunnel slots and NYPS slots, and they are simply not for sale to Amtrak or NJT. MTA Board of Directors is the de facto Board for both the LIRR and MNRR. 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/20 15:24 by joemvcnj.



Date: 02/10/20 16:32
Re: NJ, NY: "A tunnel in peril"
Author: ProAmtrak

It'll take a major disaster to wake DC up!

Posted from Android



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