Passenger Trains > ACE gets hammered on 2/27, curious why?

The fleet of ACE corridor trains just went into Niles Canyon, spaced by about 5 minutes, with the first being just about 3 hrs down. I was in Sunol at about 15:30 and saw the (IG2OA?) holding just east of Bond Rd, which I've never seen before, and was thinking it needed to clear the towerin Fremont by 16:00 for the first ACE at 16:11. 

Did the (IG2OA?) die in Sunol and not get patched till 18:30/19:00 when I heard it hit the tower? 

Thx,

Rob 
Fremont, Ca

Problem with a freight blocking the route, according to numerous alerts ACE sent out this afternoon.

First text alert went out at 16:14, when the first afternoon train was at Centerville.

I think you can view the alerts on ACE’s webpage.

Posted from iPhone



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/20 20:09 by walstib.

Patch crew was called at 12:55, strange it took so long.

Everything falls to the lowest common denominator. In moving crews around, what do you suppose that might be?

From unnoficial sources,

A very long IG2OA (10K Ft) outlawed at Sunol, blocing all ACE traffic. Only Livermore is long enough to handle that long a train, and would have required cutting crossings which they may not have had the time or inclination to do with a 2 person crew and a long train. Why they sent a mostly non clearing train with a short time crew and a hope it could clear at Niles before the crew died is not for me to say. There was some discussion that the Corridor Manager ordered it. The dispatcher on duty at the time seems to handle traffic quite well. The patch crew arrived a couple hours later.

The ACE passengers were put on an Amtrak Capital to Oakland connecting with a San Joaquin to Stockton for a long trip home. At least Amtrak and Ace worked together. I have a friend whose daughter was on the ACE and he was getting updates from her.

Jim B

There was a time when if a bone-headed dispatcher / "manager" did this, he'd be written up, or disciplined.

What a bone head.  Just plain dumb to do this.  Lots of people paid the price.

Hey stop whining PSR is working——on paper.

Posted from iPhone

coach Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a time when if a bone-headed dispatcher
> / "manager" did this, he'd be written up, or
> disciplined.
>

The first two Chiefs I worked for would have made you wish you had worn an asbestos suit to work, then it was too late to take the transfer (anticipated and the guy working for you was already there) and the (one sided) conversation (diatribe) would have ended with Get the hell out of here. My first Chief told a guy (by phone, not in person), after a supremely egregious violation You're fired, NOW. Don't come back. I'll mail you the result of the investigation.

The first Superintendent I worked for would appear in the door after you took over the shift and announce YOU! MY OFFICE...NOW! That was not a Good Thing. I got that treatment for something I was not involved with that he thought I was. (long story)

The third Chief I worked for was less direct about it but with the same seriousness. It was more like You realize how stupid that was, don't you? That was a clue that any response other than yes was an excuse leading to a path you didn't want to start on. If you were lucky, that statement was in the form of a bullet, a telegram that had to be printed on asbestos. It would end with...and if you fail to understand, you need to come to my office to talk about it. (that meant - listen).

By the early 80s, I sure missed those guys.

TAW

An honest question I have for those in the know: does UP care at all at this point about the ACE delays? I'm dead serious, as they are so focused on saving money these days, PR is irrelevant to them, so all the pissed off commuters don't factor in to the equation, which only leads to the obvious: is whatever contract provisions they have with ACE for freight delays going to provide enough incentive for this to be avoided in the future?

I ask because in January, I personally witnessed the entire evening ACE fleet taking sidings to get around one of these no-fit monster stackers, which delayed each Ace tain about 5 minutes - nothing like this delay last night, but a delay nonetheless, and one that would have been preventable. Indeed, the next night, the monster stacker sat in Lathrop for 4+ hours until the ACE fleet had cleared. But clearly lessons were not learned, as yesterday was just ridiculous, and given that this is not the first time this has happened, it  gets me back to my original question: does UP even care...?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/20 12:59 by JamesSchlinger.

Certain crew members love to “throw out the big anchor” when they get short on time. I’m not saying this is the case here, but it might be factor. I’ve worked with guys that practically get giddy when they have the chance to really hammer the “railroad” back for all of their denied claims, jerk managers, poor decision making, bad lineups, crappy air conditioning, whatever. “Oh.....NOW they want me to hurry up and get out of the way?”

Ivar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Certain crew members love to “throw out the big
> anchor” when they get short on time. I’m not
> saying this is the case here, but it might be
> factor.

Not defending the practice, but 3 words: hostile work environment.

Typically, it's the management's responsibility to manage the work environment. They can stop whining now, since they have the power to discipline, hire, and fire.

I'm not giving the unions a free pass either - why not work on agreements to improve the work environment, instead of just promising wage increases, payments for violations, and so forth?

Ivar Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Certain crew members love to “throw out the big
> anchor” when they get short on time. I’m not
> saying this is the case here, but it might be
> factor. I’ve worked with guys that practically
> get giddy when they have the chance to really
> hammer the “railroad” back for all of their
> denied claims, jerk managers, poor decision
> making, bad lineups, crappy air conditioning,
> whatever. “Oh.....NOW they want me to hurry up
> and get out of the way?”



When I worked for RRs, I saw these "us vs. them" actions by agreement employees frequently.  Almost every day. Killing a train for a few extra bucks while cost the company thousands of dollars or inconviencing dozens of passengers was not just acceptable but something to be proud of.

ex-UTU conductor, yardmaster.

Duna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Killing a train for a few extra
> bucks while cost the company thousands of dollars
> or inconviencing dozens of passengers was not just
> acceptable but something to be proud of.
>

I was a little surprised to find out how accepted the practice was when I hired out at BN. Yeah, it's found everywhere, but BN crews won the prize. I was on a Vancouver BC - Seattle road trip learning my newly assigned chunk of railroad. We were in the locker room in Vancouver, just coming on duty. The crew discussed the plan for the trip, how long to spend on the pickups and how to make them take that long, how to burn time at the border, where to go eat because the trip was too long, and where we would die 12 hours after the present conversation. Yes, they had a train dispatcher riding with them, they knew it, he was in the room with them as they discussed how to burn the day and not make it to Seattle.

TAW

No way I can know if that was the case here, but given the respect (end sarcasm)  for UP management, it wouldn't be a surprise.

Regardless of the above, dispatching a non-clearing train with a short time crew into the middle of rush hour traffic would seem to validate the crews opinion of UP management's judgement. If they were trying to save money, they had to call a patch crew anyway. And they didn't almost make it, Where they died at Sunol is quite a ways from Oakland. Yes, they would have cleared ACE at Niles, where they could then also tie up Capitols.

Jim B

For anyone curious, another monster IG2OA, 14,000+ ft is headed the same way, although some of those cars will be set out at Lathrop, but still, it ain't going to fit in those sidings between Lathrop and Niles. Now this one is techincally due over the line on a Sunday, when ACE doesn't even run, but with a train that size, who knows when it will finally make it. (e.g. it held in the Salt Lake area because it was up against a 10,000 ft IOANP and no, the WP sidings out that way aren't big enough either....)

I swear, you can't make this stuff up! I thought Omhaha hired a bunch of whiz accountants and finance guys to make the RR more efficient. Sounds like they can't even do basic math.

JamesSchlinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I swear, you can't make this stuff up! I thought
> Omhaha hired a bunch of whiz accountants and
> finance guys to make the RR more efficient. Sounds
> like they can't even do basic math.

It's napkin engineering. Great ideas on paper, but doesn't quite work in the real world, where "tools" like software can't change geography or laws of physics. This is stupidity that can't be stopped. I'm sure these whiz kids are good at math, especially in finance. Their "intelligence" make them arrogant and they browbeat people in "lower" ranks to force their lofty ideas.

What's happening should be worthy of laughter and mockery. Let them fail - they certainly don't need or want any help from mere mortals. :-)

cchan006 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> JamesSchlinger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I swear, you can't make this stuff up! I
> thought
> > Omhaha hired a bunch of whiz accountants and
> > finance guys to make the RR more efficient.
> Sounds
> > like they can't even do basic math.
>
> It's napkin engineering. Great ideas on paper, but
> doesn't quite work in the real world, where
> "tools" like software can't change geography or
> laws of physics. This is stupidity that can't be
> stopped. I'm sure these whiz kids are good at
> math, especially in finance. Their "intelligence"
> make them arrogant and they browbeat people in
> "lower" ranks to force their lofty ideas.
>
> What's happening should be worthy of laughter and
> mockery. Let them fail - they certainly don't need
> or want any help from mere mortals. :-)


Railroads & Amtrak should only hire experienced, seasoned railfans. All problems solved, and diners are back.

Duna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Railroads & Amtrak should only hire experienced,
> seasoned railfans. All problems solved, and diners
> are back.

My comments are based on my job experiences, and little to do with railfanning, in case you needed clarification. I apologize for not spoon-feeding you data to allow you to process your narrative.

> Railroads & Amtrak should only hire experienced,
> seasoned railfans. All problems solved, and diners
> are back.

Multiple people on this thread are/were railroaders and you certainly know nothing about my qualifications either. Not that one needs to work for a railroad to comment on the stupidity of some of these no-fit 14,000 ft stack-trains.   

PS - Thanks for reminding me why I rarely post on here anymore. But hey, hope you are enjoying your Saturday and that your sarcastic reply further brightens your day. 

 

JamesSchlinger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Multiple people on this thread are/were
> railroaders and you certainly know nothing about
> my qualifications either.

He has his critics, and I'm sure they are aware that he parades his qualifications here on TO in attempts to gain credibility. It almost seems as if he was offended by my comments, even though my remark was not pointed at him, hint hint. :-)