Passenger Trains > Leaving Passengers Behind: What's the Solution?

Leaving Passengers Behind: What's the Solution?
 The practice of leaving passengers behind at an intermediate stop is a controversial issue.

We've heard of instances whereby curious passengers disembark at an intermediate stop and the train departs, leaving them behind.  Often, the passenger must remain overnight without the funds to obtain a hotel room.  Sometimes, the weather is inclement or there is no shelter for the night until the next train comes through whereby the passenger can board to continue their journey.  Such circumstances can put a passenger (especially a female) in a very dangerous situation.
 
I cite an example of such an issue which became the subject of a heated topic on a Facebook thread several months ago:  A woman travelling to California on the SWC (Amtrak 3) disembarked the train at an intermediate stop at a small station in Missouri.  As she walked away from the doorway of the Superliner, the train began to move.  The woman turned and began to run toward the doorway where the Amtrak conductor stood leaning out the window watching her beg him to stop the train.  All of this was caught on film and the conductor could have easily stopped the train to let the lady reboard the train.  Instead, the conductor kept watching the woman as the train accelerated.  The woman was left at the station without protection for several hours until a family member drove hundreds of miles to pick her up. 

Train crews are charged with the on-time performance of the train:

But what about the safety of passengers, especially those that wander away from the train? 

What protocols do T&E personnel follow to ensure that a passenger doesn't wander away from the train or get left behind in a potentially dangerous situation at an intermediate stop? 

What if the stranded woman became ill, injured or worse...  Who bears the responsibility for passenger safety? 

Please share your opinion about the best solution to handling such issues.
 



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/20 08:43 by NYC4096.

Maybe I'm missing something, but why did the woman get off the train?  I don't ride often, but I've always been told if you get off at one the so called fresh air/smoking stops you have to know when the train is about to leave again. Not seeing the video I can't comment on what happened that instance you described, but I doubt the train came to a stop and restarted the soon after the woman got off unless she thought that it was her stop and realized she got off the wrong place.  This would not be Amtrak's fault.

We have 150 years of history to help answer this question, although as more stations become unstaffed, the safety concern of those that are left at remote, and/or unstaffed stations does seem to put more responsibility on the railroad.   There are always 2 sides to every story and we have only heard your description of events, but if your description is mostly accurate, I really see no reason why the conductor shouldn't stop the train to retrieve her.   He also has a responsibility to know who is on his train and to make some effort to ensure people know the train is leaving.   Without knowing what she has to say (and, frankly, the conductor as well) , I'll leave it at that.

The solution is personal responsibility. Unfortunately, it's something the courts rarely uphold.

On the southbound Coast Starlight I have heard the conductor announce over the PA system something like:
We are coming to a fresh air stop at Eugene.  We will be there for five minutes only.  We will blow the horn a minute before departure.  Do not go further than the platform or station interior.  We will leave with or without you.  If you fail to re-board the train there are taxis that will take you to Chemault, our next stop, for about $150."
And people still fail to reboard.

railstiesballast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the southbound Coast Starlight I have heard the
> conductor announce over the PA system something
> like:
> We are coming to a fresh air stop at Eugene.  We
> will be there for five minutes only.  We will
> blow the horn a minute before departure.  Do not
> go further than the platform or station
> interior.  We will leave with or without you. 
> If you fail to re-board the train there are taxis
> that will take you to Chemault, our next stop, for
> about $150."
> And people still fail to reboard.

Some Auto-Train OBS staff make a similar announcement, others do not.  There's a 20-30 minute stop in the middle of the night as food waste, etc is removed, and equipment is fueled. Once the train is ready to leave Florence SC, it leaves.  Years ago many doors opened for this stop, now it's often just one or two.

In my youth, aka, under 40 years old, I still clearly recall 2 incidents of being at least 75 yards away from the train taking pictures of the train when I heard the familiar toot-toot.  I just barely made it back on board both times thanks to my attentive sleeping car attendants.  These days, I never leave the platform unless I know it's a long stop that's announced over the PA and I also see blue flags on the front engine.  When they come down, I immediately head back to the sleeper I'm in.

In more recent times, I've 'witnessed' people left behind several times per my scanner.  I've been aboard when we've stopped maybe 10-15 seconds after starting to move account someone left behind as well.  2 years ago, on the Sunset, while stopped at Houston, a young couple started wandering away to smoke and despite the conductor telling them to stay close, they didn't.  Only after hearing the toot-toot and the conductor waving his arms frantically did they come running back.  There is no cure-all solution for leaving passengers behind short of completely fencing in the platform so no one can be too far away.

NYC4096 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Leaving Passengers Behind: What's the Solution?
>  The practice of leaving passengers behind at an
> intermediate stop is a controversial issue.
>
> We've heard of instances whereby curious
> passengers disembark at an intermediate stop and
> the train departs, leaving them behind.  Often,
> the passenger must remain overnight without the
> funds to obtain a hotel room.  Sometimes, the
> weather is inclement or there is no shelter for
> the night until the next train comes through
> whereby the passenger can board to continue their
> journey.  Such circumstances can put a passenger
> (especially a female) in a very dangerous
> situation.
>  
> I cite an example of such an issue which became
> the subject of a heated topic on a Facebook thread
> several months ago:  A woman travelling to
> California on the SWC (Amtrak 3) disembarked the
> train at an intermediate stop at a small station
> in Missouri.  As she walked away from the doorway
> of the Superliner, the train began to move.  The
> woman turned and began to run toward the doorway
> where the Amtrak conductor stood leaning out the
> window watching her beg him to stop the train. 
> All of this was caught on film and the conductor
> could have easily stopped the train to let the
> lady reboard the train.  Instead, the conductor
> kept watching the woman as the train
> accelerated.  The woman was left at the station
> without protection for several hours until a
> family member drove hundreds of miles to pick her
> up. 
>
> Train crews are charged with the on-time
> performance of the train:
>
> But what about the safety of passengers,
> especially those that wander away from the
> train? 
>
> What protocols do T&E personnel follow to ensure
> that a passenger doesn't wander away from the
> train or get left behind in a potentially
> dangerous situation at an intermediate stop? 
>
> What if the stranded woman became ill, injured or
> worse...  Who bears the responsibility for
> passenger safety? 
>
> Please share your opinion about the best solution
> to handling such issues.
>  

Link to the video by chance?

I was leaving Florence, SC on night on a freight train, I was going to leave right behind 53. I was blocked from getting on the engines by 53. The fireman got off the engines for something and got left. I knew him and if I had to put up with him all the way to Sanford I would have left him too. He got the dispatcher to stop the train and an Amtrak TM to take him to the train.

dtoeppen Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Long story short: People are idiots. But now, they
> can go online and try to blame others for their
> own stupidity. Sometimes, other stupid people
> gather around the first stupid person, and they
> congeal into a group. Then, that group
> collectively believes that the problem is others,
> not them.

This is a problem in almost every facet of life.....  :( 

This has become a bigger problem since smoking has been prohibited on trains and people are put off every few hours to recharge nicotine cells trainside. Perhaps the solution is to eliminate smoke stops and substitute low cost nicotine replacement products for sale in the lounge car. Sell them at cost.  I would also think that a lot of passengers are vaping in the restrooms because the vapor doesn't linger as long as smoke. It is easy to hide and not get caught. 

Todd Clark
Canyon Country, CA
Trainorders.com

Hear - hear.

NYC4096 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I cite an example of such an issue which became
> the subject of a heated topic on a Facebook thread
> several months ago:  A woman travelling to
> California on the SWC (Amtrak 3) disembarked the
> train at an intermediate stop at a small station
> in Missouri.  As she walked away from the doorway
> of the Superliner, the train began to move.  The
> woman turned and began to run toward the doorway
> where the Amtrak conductor stood leaning out the
> window watching her beg him to stop the train. 
> All of this was caught on film and the conductor
> could have easily stopped the train to let the
> lady reboard the train.  Instead, the conductor
> kept watching the woman as the train
> accelerated.  The woman was left at the station
> without protection for several hours until a
> family member drove hundreds of miles to pick her
> up. 

Do those people on a social media website know first hand what the entire story is?
Could the "conductor" have directly warned the person about getting off the train in the first place?
Is it possible that person that got left behind was making a nuisance of herself before that, causing the crew to become indifferent to her fragrant lack of respect for the rules by getting off like that?

Everyone loves to hide on social media websites and judge others. 99.9% of the time without full knowledge of what actually happened.

The "solution" as you asked? Shame on you, you know the answer already: Be respectful and mindful of others and follow the rules.

During a month long stay at Whitefish, MT I would often go to the station to watch # 7 - 8 arrive and depart.  Almost always a conductor would be at the open door/window of the rear sleeper watching for "runners".

What are the practices of First-world countries such as Norway, Sweden, Germany, Switzerland or Japan?

Why not adapt their policies and procedures instead of the "this is the way we've always done it" mentality?

Something for the new man at the helm to tackle perhaps?    

viatrainrider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> During a month long stay at Whitefish, MT I would
> often go to the station to watch # 7 - 8 arrive
> and depart.  Almost always a conductor would be
> at the open door/window of the rear sleeper
> watching for "runners".

While the steamers might not agree, in this day and age for what folks spend on sleepers etc., I think this is good customer service, versus the "teach em a lesson" crowd. 

Molino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What are the practices of First-world countries
> such as Norway, Sweden, Germany, Switzerland or
> Japan?
>
> Why not adapt their policies and procedures
> instead of the "this is the way we've always done
> it" mentality?
>
> Something for the new man at the helm to tackle
> perhaps?    
Can't speak for all of those countries, but on many European trains there's a display at each door showing the time, down to the second, before the doors close and the train departs.  When/if you get off, you know exactly how long you have to return.  Amtrak doesn't have the technology to do that.  On most trains, they don't even have automatic doors!

Most European trains, the Guard has no idea who is getting on and off.  And many times there isn't even an announcement as to what station is next. Some of the newer trains have video display showing what the next station is. There are no car attendants other than in sleepers. But on most routes there would be another train within an hour or so . So no big deal. 

          The lady that got off the SWC at La Plata was asked by the conductor is that was her stop and she said it was. She was blabbing to people she met on the train and followed them to their car. When the train was ready to go, they left. She then remembered it was her ride to KC and came running. She was not left to the elements at all. The station attendant and his wife got hold of her guy who may not have been surprised. He provided a motel room that night, they transported her and he drove down the next day to pick her up and then to KC to get her luggage. Everybody did their job fine except her. I am sure thousands have watched the youtube video and laughed all night at that one.
          The correct side of the details on this were offered up by the personnel at the depot on the chat. Not all adults do a good job of taking care of themselves apparently,

Molino Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What are the practices of First-world countries
> such as Norway, Sweden, Germany, Switzerland or
> Japan?
>
> Why not adapt their policies and procedures
> instead of the "this is the way we've always done
> it" mentality?
>
> Something for the new man at the helm to tackle
> perhaps? 

There is a significant cultural difference between Europe and the United States.  In many European nations, on-time performance is routinely operated by the railroads and is expected by the public.  In the United States, particularly outside of the Northeast Corridor and other corridors, long-distance trains often run late.  If passenger train patrons, rightly or wrongly, do not sense an urgency of departing a station at a given time, this problem will continue to exist where riders are allowed to take fresh air breaks.