Passenger Trains > Calling it like it is.

Isn't it about time that AmTrak CEO George D. Warrington starts shooting-straight? The mortgaging of Penn Station is the last straw.
Even at this late date, in an announcement he made reported on the BLE site http://www.ble.org/pr/news/headline060701a.asp he still will not mention it.

It's all over except for the "fat lady". Only nostalgia and/or blindness could keep anyone from seeing that a paradigm shift is neccessary for AmTrak immediately.

As CombatRailFan put it so much more eloquently than I could the other day; it is time for this country to stop insisting AmTrak make a profit when no other passenger rail transportation entity in the world does. It is time for this country to stop refusing to subsidize passenger rail transportation sufficiently in this country when every other mode of passenger transportation is.

Doug

...since so many feel the govt should subsidize vacation options(Amtrak), but many of us don't think more money should go to a poorly run institution that refuses to hold itself accountable to the standards and fiscal practices every sustaining private business has to recognize(going broke? then give the MOW unions a big raise, and add more managers), then how about this:

Make a checkoff box on everyone's tax return. "If you want to donate $10 to fund Amtrak, check here." That way you don't have to steal money from those who are against such waste. Its only fair, correct? And those on the left are always using fairness as an excuse for their latest grabs. Thats a billion a year for Amtrak, if everyone is true to the ideology they vote for, if everyone decides to live the way they vote(since we are split down the middle politically, lets say 100 million check off, time $10, equals a billion. Of course the actual funds spent might be below $500 million, since so much is siphoned off in the bureaucracy. What was the figure a few years ago, something like around only 30% of the funds in certain entitlement programs were actual paid to recipients, the rest was govt overhead.). But since close to 50% of Americans now pay nothing in income tax, would all of those who vote Dem. actually be willing to pay for what they voted for? Haha, I have my doubts.

But you say, that is not fair because everyone "benefits"(ha!) from Amtrak? Well make it so that if you check the box the IRS will send you an Amtrak Funder I.D. card, good for discounted travel on Amtrak. Or IF YOU REALLY WANT TO BE FAIR, simply require any US resident who wants to use Amtrak to show the id card or number before being able to purchase the ticket. Members only, baby.

Of course the simple solution would be to just price the ticket for the actual cost of the service, but that would be free-market principles that the left abhors(hence their banishment of the subject from public schools on the theory of "What they don't know they won't be able to use against us!"), and we could never have that.

Oh yeah, if you weren't for this last tax cut, why don't you send your refund back?

...here's a link to the form you can use to send your tax refund back to the IRS so that there will be more money to save Amtrak:

http://www.boortz.com/refund/refund.pdf

But of course, that assumes that they won't simply spend it some other pork, or to expand commuter rail in VT & SD. Yes, good thing Jeffords switch parties, it sure did help the "Vermonter", didn't it? (Though actually, he just seemed to be joining the party whose views are closer to his, so good for him, us Republicans were lucky to have him on board this long and reap the benefits. Might not have been able to enjoy having the majority in the Senate at all in '01.)

To be really safe why don't one of you start a "Save Amtrak/Amtrack/AmTrak/Slamtrack/Scamtrack/Yamtrack/Hamtrack/Spamtrack/Wham!track/Glamtrack/Lambtrack/Onthelamtrack/Shazaamtrack/PearlJamtrack/JonClaudeVandAmtrak/Refrigeratormanscrack/Thatsanicerack!" organization. Heck, just get 40 million Americans to donate their $300 refund, and you've got your $12 billion to save Amtrak(betcha they'd be back in a few years with another excuse, however).

So see, no need to steal from other taxpayers to save Amtrak, just do it yourselves.

I for one do not mind giving money to subsidize Passenger Rail Trave. But in its current mis-managed half ass state, I am not. Break Up Amtrak, re-organze it into a more well run, less topheavy outfit and try again... In its current state Amtrak is all about what is wrong with government run agencies

Diddie Diddie Doo,

I'll accept an Amtrak check box if I get one to decide if my tax dollars support trucks, airlines and Isreal.

R

"As CombatRailFan put it so much more eloquently than I could the other day; it is time for this country to stop insisting AmTrak make a profit when no other passenger rail transportation entity in the world does. It is time for this country to stop refusing to subsidize passenger rail transportation sufficiently in this country when every other mode of passenger transportation is.

Doug"

Well put.

Thanks,
Drew

diddle_e._squat wrote:
> Make a checkoff box on everyone's tax return. "If you want to
> donate $10 to fund Amtrak, check here."

I'd like to choose how much money goes to the military for $2000 coffee pots.

Please, Stash, diddl-E doesn't want to criticize the military..to judge from his tone, he probably has his OWN uniform in the closet.........Black w/Silver piping & lightning streaks on the collar

Why the personal attacks?

The discussion is pretty good when you stick to facts and railroad opinions. I really don't care what anyone has in his closet, you never know he or she might be a cross dresser.

I think "diddly" as it right and should run for governor of PA after Tom the Ridge leaves.

Amen Bob. Subsidizing trucks, airlines, the mil-industrial complex and keeping up the Israelis in the style to which they've become accustomed are bankrupting this country.

scrantondivn wrote:
> he probably has his OWN uniform in the closet.........
> Black w/Silver piping & lightning streaks on the collar

WOW!!!
That came out of nowhere and was uncalled for...

Anyone who has read my posts knows I believe, and try my best to practice, civility (and strive to keep my posts rail-oriented, too). I've cautioned even those whom I probably agree with, politically, such as Blair, when their posts stray from rail topics.

But, that having been said, I find it hard to take it seriously when people claim to be surprised that diddlee's obtuse, insulting rants against all things Amtrak and public services (in general) finally garnered him some online payback in kind.

Offering constructive criticism of Amtrak is one thing; and, even a rant about poor service or bad management isn't out of line; but diddlee constantly, and consistently, uses this Board as an outlet for flaming the very concept of Amtrak, and flaming those whom might protect the public weal, and flaming those whom merely defend Amtrak online, which is tantamount to an atheist posting anti-Christian flames on a church bulletin board. It shows not merely a lack of class, but in so many ways denigrates diddlee's mindset better than any liberal diatribe ever could. Charles McCain, William F. Buckley, and George Will are conservatives one may disagree with, but their wit and intelligence give their arguments merit, and earn our respect, whether we agree with them or not -- diddlee's comments are obviously not worthy of being other than ignored, if only to avoid the danger of dragging responses down to his level.

Post privately as you can or will, but please, when it comes to the Board: keep it clean; keep it real; keep it RAIL ...

...is a tactic employed when you can't argue facts(due to their not being on your side). Mr.(Mrs.?) Pravihrvat, before misrepresenting my views and statement, you might want to check my previous posts. If so you will find I am a strong supporter of passenger rail in certain forms, both interstate in current form, and more importantly HSR in the long-term. Not to mention commuter and light-rail, which certainly are worthy investments NOW in many markets(but not Burlington, VT). My criticism of Amtrak has to do with mismanagement, misleading and dishonest accounting and mgmt. practices, and the politics involved. In addition I criticize pie-in-the-sky foaming passenger rail advocates who refuse to consider cost/benefit, market demand, and other realities. And most of all I criticize dishonesty as a recurring tactic, if a person's issues are right, there is not a need to resort to such shameful practices. I'm on record as criticizing many shady or porkbarrel Republicans, such as Bud Shuster and Trent Lott, not just Dems.

And good retort calling me a Nazi, but you forgot to suggest that I want to poison the environment, take away pensions from the elderly, and starve children. And what exact point that I made, if any, does implying that I am a Nazi refute?

You make my points about certain liberals and Democrats tactics quite effectively.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good myth.

pravihrvat wrote:
>
> but diddlee constantly, and consistently, uses this Board
> as an outlet for flaming the very concept of Amtrak, and
> flaming those whom might protect the public weal, and flaming
> those whom merely defend Amtrak online, which is tantamount to
> an atheist posting anti-Christian flames on a church bulletin
> board.

Ah, so Amtrak defenders are above criticism, if they elevate their hobby and politics to a religious fervor.

> Post privately as you can or will, but please, when it comes to
> the Board: keep it clean; keep it real; keep it RAIL ...

And which of those 3 did I specifically violate?

State your case......leave out personality reviews...... let the chips fall where they may.....enjoy yourself and most of all, let others do so.

You are destroying your point of view by your thin-skinned, paranoid diatribes against good people whose only crime is that they stick to the subject at hand and don't happen to agree with you to the last jot and tittle.

Wow!

I agree crazy, start from scratch and do better next time.

Diddlee --

Please read my post more closely: I never called you any name, much less called you a Nazis. In fact, I enjoined those who fell to your level of repartee to give it a rest, not respond in kind, and refocus on railways, NOT personalities or partisan politics. I did say that, considering your continual liberal-baiting and Amtrak-bashing it didn't surprise me that you had garnered feedback of the same low ilk.

For example -- to quote from just part of one of your posts in this thread, you wrote as follows:

"Amtrak/Amtrack/AmTrak/Slamtrack/Scamtrack/Yamtrack/Hamtrack/Spamtrack/Wham!track/Lambtrack/Onthelamtrack/Shazaamtrack/PearlJamtrack/JonClaudeVandAmtrak/Refrigeratormanscrack/Thatsanicerack"

and

"So, no need to steal from other taxpayers to save Amtrak ..."


These are, unfortunately, all too representative of your writing style and intellectual expression -- why not aim to write more like Mr. Will or Mr. Buckley instead? Raise your standard of language and debate, and we'll all be happier.

Finally, you seem to have misread my analogy re: atheists flaming Christians on a church bulletin board. Let me frame it differently, in hope you may yet grasp how you come across here, since that may be unintentional on your part; if we are all Giants fans, and posting on a Giants-specific bulletin board, we can freely gripe and moan about the status of the team, bad trades, poor games, etc. -- BUT, that's very different than somebody who's a Dodgers fan continually putting up flames on that same Giants-specific board inveighing for the Giants to be disbanded or for their team plane to crash, etc. ... and that is what your posts, sadly, too often resemble, imho.

As politely as I can, wishing you the best.

"Amen Bob. Subsidizing trucks, airlines, the mil-industrial complex and keeping up the Israelis in the style to which they've become accustomed are bankrupting this country."

Longing for the good ole days of gas chambers? At least you are honest about the roots of you beliefs. What's a good rightwinger to do if at some point he can't attack Jews!

First scrantondivn
“Please, Stash, diddl-E doesn't want to criticize the military..to judge from his tone, he probably has his OWN uniform in the closet.........Black w/Silver piping & lightning streaks on the collar”

saludamtn really lays it on the line, goes right to the heart of things with an appeal to anti Semitism.

Amen Bob. Subsidizing trucks, airlines, the mil-industrial complex and keeping up the Israelis in the style to which they've become accustomed are bankrupting this country.

Then crazy nip
WOW!!!
That came out of nowhere and was uncalled for...

The conservatives here always go for this sort of attack against people who differ with them. Normally it’s mostly ignored. I’ve sat at gatherings and listened to people being called commies queers and fags, the wife of a President called a lesbian, baby killer. Conversations usually end with a wistfulness for the gas chambers, saludamtn’s own reply seems to support this. Being “civil” with these people doesn’t work they just see it as weakness and a licenses to attack even more. Civil with the fascist right doesn’t work, it didn’t work with Hitler and I for one had had my fill.

"...and I for one had had my fill."

Why don't you kids take this outside?

...I apologize if my 2nd post wasn't more clear in that it was addressing criticism from multiple posters. Thought that was apparent, but apparently not.

And witness dear combatrailfan, a master of subtlety. Apparently any criticism of Israel brings out the anti-semite/pro-gas-chamber label. Yep, he's figured out the stereotype, us conservatives are all completely 100% alike. Any sin committed by one Republican must have been committed by all, that has to be true because he read it on the DNC website(which, incidently, is asking each of us to send in and contribute all of our tax cut to their party. I couldn't make this stuff up!)


Privihrvat wrote:

> you wrote as follows:
>
> "Amtrak/Amtrack/AmTrak/Slamtrack/Scamtrack/Yamtrack/Hamtrack/Spamtrack/Wham!track/Lambtrack/Onthelamtrack/Shazaamtrack/PearlJamtrack/JonClaudeVandAmtrak/Refrigeratormanscrack/Thatsanicerack"
>
> and
>
> "So, no need to steal from other taxpayers to save Amtrak ..."
>
>
> These are, unfortunately, all too representative of your
> writing style and intellectual expression -- why not aim to
> write more like Mr. Will or Mr. Buckley instead?

Because I am not them, but rather myself. The first was simply reposting a collection of nicknames come up by others of wit, and adding my own, since I find many of them to be humorous. But perhaps humor is no longer PC. The second simplifies to explain. The American Heritage Dictionary defines steal as "To take(the property of another) without right or permission." Just because some people want to spend some of everyone's money to fund Amtrak, doesn't make it right.


> Finally, you seem to have misread my analogy re: atheists
> flaming Christians on a church bulletin board.

Nope, I got it, but rather used it to move on and make another point.


> As politely as I can, wishing you the best.

Thank you, and the same to you.