Passenger Trains > Goodbye Talgo

I can't say who or when but some of the Talgo S6s are being sold off to a third party.  Enjoy them while you can...

Bad reactionary decision, if true.  WSDOT is misguided.  

Are the Chicagoland's Horizon cars running on Casacde trains yet ?

Talgos are some of the best trains I've ridden in the U.S.  Nice big windows. So why are they getting rid of them. Horizon cars are junk. 

I don’t consider this a reactionary decision at all. The majority of the sets were built in 1998 and are over 20 years old now. I know that WSDOT was considering replacement options before the DuPont disaster because the trains are nearing the end of their service life and are becoming more expensive to maintain. That necessity hasn’t changed.

F7sForever Wrote:
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> I don’t consider this a reactionary decision at
> all. The majority of the sets were built in 1998
> and are over 20 years old now. I know that WSDOT
> was considering replacement options before the
> DuPont disaster because the trains are nearing the
> end of their service life and are becoming more
> expensive to maintain. That necessity hasn’t
> changed.

ONLY 20 years old?????  WSDOT better get a reality check on life expectancy of rolling stock.  Amfleet I cars are 45-ish, Superliner I cars 40-ish, Viewliner I cars are 25-ish.  Their secretary of the budget better shut down any hint of selling them, ESPECIALLY as they do NOT have any replacements on the property!

Read Talgo's petition to have the "Fake News" reevaluated.

http://www.web.talgoamerica.com/about-us-menu/news/102-talgo-inc-petition-for-reconsideration-of-ntsb

I know that there are Talgos that are supposed to be replaced in the short term. I forgot which ones. I don't think there has been any replacement equipment ordered for the Cascades.

There are two full Wisconsin Talgo-8 trains as well as one extra cab car and an extra coach being prepared right now for use on the Cascades. At least two Talgo-8 trains built at the same time as the Oregon Talgo-8s will be arriving in the August to October period of time. 

I personally agree that the Talgo-6s should not be discarded but if they get put to good use then so be it.  I Have ridden in them many times and have felt perfectly safe and comfortable. Of course the Talgo-7s will still be available.

The following statement comes from an individual at ODOT whom I will not identify..
     It’s always difficult to predict the future, especially in times like these.  Washington State’s DOT is planning to have Amtrak park the Talgo 6 trainsets June 1 and operate with Oregon’s two Talgo 8 trains and one or two sets of conventional equipment furnished by Amtrak.  We don’t anticipate the arrival of the Wisconsin Talgo 8 trains until September or October.  Will the Talgo 6 trainsets disappear?  I don’t know.  I believe WSDOT is open to selling their two sets and I don’t know what Amtrak might do with their two trains.  We’ll just have to wait and see what develops.  As you can imagine, there’s not much of a market right now for selling used passenger train equipment of any type.

joemvcnj Wrote:
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> Are the Chicagoland's Horizon cars running on
> Casacde trains yet ?

I heard they had a horizon test train a couple weeks ago from my source. No idea why horizon cars would need testing as it's not the first time they've ran them on the cascades

Rumor is they'll be using just the ODOT S8s for now and will add the horizon sets when things pick back up (or one of the S8s inevitable has problems)

Posted from Android

Amtrak was making sure all cars were MU-able... and worked in that configuration. Also trying to get the Horizon cars to be able to run at Talgo speeds by petitioning the BNSF and doing testing.  

Amtk98 Wrote:
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> Amtrak was making sure all cars were MU-able...
> and worked in that configuration. Also trying to
> get the Horizon cars to be able to run at Talgo
> speeds by petitioning the BNSF and doing
> testing.  

There are so many stories, even among official sources, that Talgo is not needed because Amfleets can run at the same speed. That is obfuscation or misrepresentation, the point of which is getting rid of Talgo trains in the US. Talgo trains can run at 8.5 inches of cant deficiency (speed limit in a curve is the same as the speed limit for the same curve with 8.5 inches more superelevation). They are allowed 5 inches because of BN(SF) track and F40/F59 ability. Amfleet cars might be able to run as high as 5 iches cant deficiency. They are not a long term solution to better, faster Pacific Northwest service. It is currently very unpopular to say that.

TAW

dtoeppen Wrote:
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> what state is WSDOT? WS is not the postal
> abbreviation for any state.
>
> MEKoch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Bad reactionary decision, if true.  WSDOT is
> > misguided.  


You can always type "WSDOT" in Google.

Weren't there structural problems in the suspension/tilt assemblies a few years ago?

Talgo seems to be doing well and the unique technology appreciated elsewhere around the world.

Pig-Mauler Wrote:
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> Weren't there structural problems in the
> suspension/tilt assemblies a few years ago?

Many years ago, there was some cracking related to the state of our track. Our stick rail track uses staggered joints. In Spain and other places, the joints are adjacent. On bad quality stick rail track, of which we had a lot on the Cascades route, the carbody and suspension was subjected to repeated twisting forces that folks in Spain didn't anticipate.

TAW

For conventional equipment, non-staggered jointed rail can lead to a bouncy ride and harder impact on the cross ties beneath the joints. The NYC subway used to have quite a bit of that on some of their els.

Posted from Android

TAW Wrote:
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>> Amtk98 Wrote:
>> There are so many stories, even among official
>> sources, that Talgo is not needed because Amfleets
> >can run at the same speed.

> That is obfuscation or misrepresentation
> TAW

I was involved with the NEC high-speed tests in the 80's. Yes, Amfleet can run as fast as Talgo but no one is going to want to ride it.  The tilting makes the ride survivable.  Tilting is absolutely necessity for passenger comfort at higher speeds.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/20 06:21 by FloridaTrainGuy.

Horizon cars are in Seattle. Not Amfleet. I thought that's what we were talking about.

I doubt the Horizon cars are going to be well liked by passengers in this corridor. They used to borrow three Superliner cars and run them between Seattle and Vancouver, BC on occasion when maintenance or shortage of Talgos was at hand. The Superliners were sold out quite frequently due to demand. But with no international service right now, not really an issue. 

What does the Cascade Corridor look like at present in terms of frequencies?

Until an additional order of train cars is made by WSDOT, train sets for the future that CAN operate on this corridor would include the following then?

- Talgo 8's - Two train sets (ODOT)
- Wisconsin Talgo 8's (to be delivered) - Two train sets (WDOT)
- ????

Does it take 6 train sets to cover the Cascade service at pre-COVID 19 frequency levels? Amtrak had expected to expand the frequencies in Dec 2017, but we all know how that ended up. Presuming they would have to borrow the Horizon cars till new cars are procured? Two Talgo 6 WSDOT owned and two Talgo 6 Amtrak owned train sets would be retired......the additional Talgo 6 that was Amtrak owned (and originally to be a Las Vegas to LA demonstrator) was scrapped after the Dec 2017 wreck.  

To operate the full train schedule pre-COVID 19 (but not the expansion schedule that was originally envisioned) won't this corridor need the Horizons for the foreseeable future, with the loss of the four Talgo 6 train sets?