Passenger Trains > PA Takes 1st Step Towards Filling for Divorce with Amtrak?

I've been watching this unfold over the past week and it seems to be a big secret here on TO... Got to reheat my Bat Broth in the microwave after this one....

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/billInfo/billInfo.cfm?syear=2019&sInd=0&body=H&type=R&bn=918

PA General Assembly, Regular Session 2019-2020, House Resolution 918, June 23rd, 2020

Short Title: A Resolution requesting the United States Department of Transportation relinquish to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania the ownership of the Philadelphia to Harrisburg railroad line, the former Pennsylvania Railroad Main Line now known as the "Harrisburg Line," currently utilized by the National Railroad Passenger Corporation (Amtrak) and the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (SEPTA) for passenger rail operations.

Actually, ball got rolling back in December with the following piece:

https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/brian-oneill/2019/12/19/Amtrak-Pittsburgh-get-off-tracks-train-transportation/stories/201912190023

Brian O'Neill: Is it time to tell Amtrak to get off the tracks in Pittsburgh?

The commonwealth is paying Amtrak more than $1 million a week for services it (theoretically) could handle itself.

Amtrak, I want a divorce.

Bennett Levin told the state House Transportation Committee on Tuesday morning that it’s time to break things off with the national passenger rail service. Pennsylvania can run the trains better and more cheaply itself.

(Article continues on the web link)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/20 16:13 by PC1974.

"Relinquish" at what price to be demanded by Amtrak?

Assuming Mr. Levin's research is correct and the line is now owned by the US DOT and should they gift it to the Commionwealth of Pa. then Pa. could terminate its contract with Amtrak and award it to SEPTA. 

   Pretty straight forward.

   IMHO-Ross Rowland 

PC1974 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've been watching this unfold over the past week
> and it seems to be a big secret here on TO... Got
> to reheat my Bat Broth in the microwave after this
> one....

It's not a secret on Trainorders.  There was already a thread on this topic a few days ago:

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?2,5051430,5053417#msg-5053417
 

Septa is funded by the several counties it serves. And by the state. Which is desperately trying to conjure funding for its current promises.

I haven't seen any sign that Lancaster County or Dauphin County want to join Septa. Or pay for service.

Bonus question: how much would Amtrak demand to hand over Lancaster station? For which the county already paid a zillion dollars to update and repaint?

Posted from Android

How much did Amtrak pay CSX for this line? Is some of the line still stick rail?

Posted from iPhone



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/20 18:40 by Sp1110.

co614 Wrote:
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> Assuming Mr. Levin's research is correct and the
> line is now owned by the US DOT and should they
> gift it to the Commionwealth of Pa. then Pa. could
> terminate its contract with Amtrak and award it to
> SEPTA. 
>
>    Pretty straight forward.
>
>    IMHO-Ross Rowland 

SEPTA has its hands full maintaining and operating its existing system.  There is no evidence that Mr. Levin discussed his idea with SEPTA to determine if it desired to have this additional responsbility.

It will ever happen. Amtrak will ever let that happen to them.

Sp1110 Wrote:
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> How much did Amtrak pay CSX for this line? Is some
> of the line still stick rail?
>
> Posted from iPhone

This is Amtraks Harrisburg Line. It has belonged to Amtrak since the inception of Conrail. None of the line is stick rail except for some yard trackage in Thorndale or maybe something like that.

Doug Wetherhold
Macungie, PA

Obviousy, Bennett Levin has no love of Amtrak. If the sole impetus for this is Bennett getting back at Amtk, then the whole thing is going nowhere.

The idea of septa running the Harrisburg trains is just ludicrous.  SEPTA has been rather poorly managed for years, and has no intercity equipment or experience.

And no matter who else might operate it. that would be the end of thru service to NYC. Cant see that as a plus.  And then there's use of 30th st phila station.  Like Amtk is gonna say, "Sure, use our station and servicing facilities, no problem. 

In a perfect world, Amtk would only be concerned with better passenger service.  If its cheaper to operate and better service, then make it happen.  But as with everything else pretty much, its all petty fighting over territory and tribal politics.

Philadelphia to Harrisburg is 106 miles and that is a bit too long to be sitting in any Septa Commuter Rail equipment. I would much rather ride an Amtrak train for that distance over sitting in equipment that is meant for traveling 50-70 miles tops. PennDot calls the shots for Amtrak Keystone Corridor and Pennsylvanian operations. The Keystone Corridor is an example of a route outside of the NEC that has undergone many changes in the past 15 years including upgrading the electrification system to allow all electric Keystone service and eliminate loop usage by having cab cars on the other ends of the trains. Given the fact that many stations are very close to each other for Amtrak standards on the Keystone Corridor, using electrics with good acceleration has worked very well for that. The Amtrak Keystone Service is almost like its own commuter rail service. During rush hours, the trains run pretty close to each other although that can be improved a little. There are people who commute from Lancaster to Philadelphia and probably even from Lancaster to Harrisburg.

Most likely Penn DOT would lease Amfleet cars and locos to cover 7 train sets, or whatever is needed. I don't know what they would do with NY extensions or the Pennsylvanian. Levin does not seem to be much concerned with Pittsburgh connections, which helps revenue of the Pennsylvanian and Capitol Ltd. 

Seems that SEPTA is Philadelphia-centric and has its plate full with lots of legacy infrasctucture obligations. Turning it over to a frequently criticised and certainly regional authority might not be the best move. Not sure the politics of Pennsylvania would support the Keystone and Pennsylvanian service in the style we're accustomed too.

pdt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Obviousy, Bennett Levin has no love of Amtrak. If
> the sole impetus for this is Bennett getting back
> at Amtk, then the whole thing is going nowhere.
>


That is all this is.  A spoiled brat upset Amtrak would not let him play with his toys.

This was already covered here on TO - my take is:  this is a very under-utilized piece of track once you get west of the Septa commuter train zone.  I think it is 10 round trips a day, plus one Amtrak long-distance train a day, and basically no freight service.  Probably about 25% of the traffic in the PRR days.  And not used enough to justify being electrified.  If another operator really wanted to make this line more cost-effective they would take down the wires and run all the service behind diesels, and also work with NS to get more through freight traffic on the line.  Will either ever happen?  Probably no way - so how would anyone else operate this service any cheaper?  

NS has to serve the Strasburg freight transfer at Leaman Place.
Is that all that is left on the Harrisburg for freight?

James R.(Jim) Baker
Whittier, CA

JimBaker Wrote:
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> NS has to serve the Strasburg freight transfer at
> Leaman Place.
> Is that all that is left on the Harrisburg for
> freight?


No, NS has Coatsville, Pa Steel Mill to serve. alot steel coming out of there.

The other big problem with SEPTA running the Harrisburg Line is that SEPTA fundinig is always a crap shoot.  Depending pm the political climate, levels of funding for SEPTA has always been iffy at best.  

Rene Tetro
Lansdale, PA
West Point Community Radio

rtetro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The other big problem with SEPTA running the
> Harrisburg Line is that SEPTA fundinig is always a
> crap shoot.  Depending pm the political climate,
> levels of funding for SEPTA has always been iffy
> at best.  

SEPTA funding hasn't always been a crap shoot.  For the past 7 - 8 years, funding has been relatively stable after the enactment of Act 89 which provided dedicated funding for Pennsylvania's transit systems (as well as increased funding for bridges and roads).  However, that measure will end in a couple of years.  What will happen next is unknown.

Earlier in this thread, I said that there is no evidence that Mr. Levin discussed this proposal with SEPTA.  If this is the case, then the suggestion that SEPTA could/should assume this new responsibility should not be taken seriously.

WHYY, the Philadelphia public broadcasting company, provided a description of how Act 89 funding operates to support roads, rails, trails, etc.

https://whyy.org/articles/what-is-act-89/