Passenger Trains > Shrinking Crescent consist

5 revenue cars on Amtrak 19 this morning. 3 coaches, chips and hot dog car, one sleeper and non revenue baggage dorm and 2 engines. Won't be long, ridem while you can, sad but 1971 all over again.

Amtrak is going every thing right to exit the long distance passenger car business.  And then they will claim that no one wants to ride.................

You are correct, last time I rode the Crescent about a year ago it was always packed from DC to Atlanta or Atlanta to DC. There was always a need for a train between these points especially to a from Greensboro and Charlotte but I quess they killed that.

Actually, shrinking the consist that much since January and going to tri-weekly pretty well tracks the reductions in flights that American, Delta, United and Southwest have had to make. 

ctillnc Wrote:
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> Actually, shrinking the consist that much since
> January and going to tri-weekly pretty well tracks
> the reductions in flights that American, Delta,
> United and Southwest have had to make. 

You're using logic here sir and you know it's just not allowed.

ctillnc Wrote:
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> Actually, shrinking the consist that much since
> January and going to tri-weekly pretty well tracks
> the reductions in flights that American, Delta,
> United and Southwest have had to make. 

Air traffic is at 40% of its previous level.  This consist is 50% of the previous level and is running 42% of the week.  That's 20% of prior capacity, and they are enforcing a 50% maximum sale, so you are looking at 10% of capacity.

What is Amtrak supposed to do? 

Jim

tq-07fan asks:
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> What is Amtrak supposed to do? 
>
Amtrak should figure out the true marginal cost of running LDTs daily versus triweekly and how to maximize revenue (shorter or longer consists). Their current accounting system which distributes all sorts of NEC fixed costs onto LDTs totally distorts what the true cost of running an LDT is. Their experience with cutting back to triweekly in the mid 90s showed they lost more money than if they had kept daily service.

WP17

The Crescent, like the Star, Meteor, and Lake Shore, should at least have a Viewliner Diner to function as a "sleeper lounge" on it. We've done this drill before with ONE food service car on trains bound for the south and it is not optimal. Amtrak is operating the Crescent at the 50%+ level even with the coaches and single sleeper (sleeper still getting more business between NE and Atlanta). Too much stress for the single food service car (Amfleet II - Diner Lite) in the way it is currently configured. 

Why would they need food service if nobody is riding the trains?

DevalDragon Wrote:
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> Why would they need food service if nobody is
> riding the trains?

For some reason this comment reminds me of a comment Yogi Berra supposedly made about a restaurant that he used to frequent in NYC: "Oh, nobody goes there anymore. It's always too crowded."

> Air traffic is at 40% of its previous level. 

Where I live, it's more like 30%. It depends on the mix of personal and business travel and the mix of domestic and international travel at a particular airport.

> This consist is 50% of the previous level and is
> running 42% of the week.  That's 20% of prior
> capacity, and they are enforcing a 50% maximum
> sale, so you are looking at 10% of capacity.

I see your point, although I suspect the load factor on the pre-Covid daily Crescent consist wasn't great because patronage was very sparse south of Atlanta. In other words, how much of that pre-Covid capacity was actually being sold. If the November-December statistics show a very high load factor, then you have a strong case that Amtrak cut too deep. But if the November-December load factor turns out to be mediocre, then argument morphs into whether three-times-weekly service killed demand. 

jp1822 Wrote:
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> The Crescent, like the Star, Meteor, and Lake
> Shore, should at least have a Viewliner Diner to
> function as a "sleeper lounge" on it. We've done
> this drill before with ONE food service car on
> trains bound for the south and it is not optimal.
> Amtrak is operating the Crescent at the 50%+ level
> even with the coaches and single sleeper (sleeper
> still getting more business between NE and
> Atlanta). Too much stress for the single food
> service car (Amfleet II - Diner Lite) in the way
> it is currently configured. 

I like this idea a lot! It also allows more space between passengers.

WP17 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tq-07fan asks:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What is Amtrak supposed to do? 
> >
> Amtrak should figure out the true marginal cost of
> running LDTs daily versus triweekly and how to
> maximize revenue (shorter or longer consists).
> Their current accounting system which distributes
> all sorts of NEC fixed costs onto LDTs totally
> distorts what the true cost of running an LDT is.
> Their experience with cutting back to triweekly in
> the mid 90s showed they lost more money than if
> they had kept daily service.
>
> WP17

Good reply. That is why I left my question so open ended. Reduced consists make sense if the trains were daily. If you aren't filling them up why run the additional cars. The three day a week service is idiotic. To me cutting out one day a week would make sense on most trains and not disrupt schedules too much yet show something was done, may even save money by having a station closed that one day a week. The three day a week schedules show a lack of thought on multiple places. The Crescent no longer makes an overnight connection with the Sunset Limited, which of course was already three days a week. Like so many things Amtrak the three day a week thing was done quickly and really Half-Assed with no foresight into what the ramifications of such action might be later. 

Jim

The math there is a bit off. 
Sleepers are running at 50% of normal capacity with 100% of that capacity available. (possibly more if they are selling dorm space)
Coaches are running at 75% of normal capacity with 50% of that capacity available.  (4 coaches is normal off season, although I have sometimes caught crescents with 3 too, so depending on your baseline, it could be 100%)

They have already lost one sleeper and 4 days a week. The is the way I count 11 less sleepers a week available on just one train one way.

Boy you guys don't get it, the only way they can eleminate a train is do 180 notices, this hopefully lasts this winter till May or June and then things will be back to normal, this assumption drives me nuts!

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ProAmtrak Wrote:
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> Boy you guys don't get it, the only way they can
> eleminate a train is do 180 notices, this
> hopefully lasts this winter till May or June and
> then things will be back to normal, this
> assumption drives me nuts!

Not necessarily. If Congress does not appropriate the money, Amtrak does not have to give the 180 day notice:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/24706

They already dropped half of the service without a 180 day notice, don't seem very hard to drop the rest off the service now. I hate to lose my reward points but I don't want to ride now with limited service and mask rules. It's just better to drive.